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It has nothing to do with tolerance. The Great Migration wasn't rural resettlement. Black people left the South for economic opportunity in northern cities. The Rural South still has black people because they never left the area in which their ancestors were enslaved.
I mentioned this in another thread, but the aspect of black people moving to the North wasn’t necessarily strictly to urban areas. In the case of parts of NY State like some small towns/cities in between Syracuse and Rochester, as well as in between Rochester and Buffalo, the Champlain Valley and the Hudson Valley/Catskills areas, among some others. Many came to work as farm workers from FL, GA and even the Caribbean. So, there are actually select small towns with a visible/substantial black population/community.
Later, some may move into the nearby cities or commute to those cities/areas for work.
Your general assessment and observation is spot on! I was raised in a lower middle class, 50/50 white/black neighborhood in suburban Charlotte in the 1970’s. There were zero problems whatsoever. We got along wonderfully. Played, Spent the night at each other’s homes. There was a neighborhood in town that was populated with white bikers (The Outlaws) who were very racist towards black people. There was a black neighborhood where my junior high school was located that was very racist toward white people. I’m white and I walked from school to visit a black friend of mine in that neighborhood. I nearly got beat up simply by being there. My friend saw what was going on and saved my neck. Racism knew no particular race. But the majority of my town was like my neighborhood. Everyone got along well. I’ve spent small stints in other areas in the country, but I still live in the suburban Charlotte city where I grew up. Still today, race is a non-issue. When I’m out and about each day, I interact with all kinds of people. We all act neighborly and just see ourselves as a human being, nothing else. If you’re a nice person (white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.), you will be treated wonderfully. If you’re a jerk (white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.), you will get called out. In terms of rural vs. urban when it comes to race in the South, there are some differences, but not huge ones.
My wife and I lived in the Boston area (where my wife was raised) for a year and a half between 2017 and early 2019 helping care for my mother-in-law who is battling Parkinson’s and Dementia. Nearly everyone I met was friendly. Great people. In terms of race, I didn’t see or detect any racist attitudes (nor was I looking). But something I did notice (and something my wife noticed when she first moved to Charlotte in the mid 1980’s) was that there is more day-to-day racial interaction on a personal level in the South than in New England. The many churches here in the Charlotte area and the specific one we attend (and they’re large churches) are very racially diverse. But the church we attended in the Boston area wasn’t racially diverse at all. It’s not an accusation, simply an observation in how false stereotypes run rampant based on TV, movies, personal biases, etc.
The only people I see, regardless of race, having issues about race are people who are obsessed with it. The less we harp on and on about our differences (ie race, religion, regions of the country, age, etc.), the better we get along. Again, good thread.
Coming from the Sipp, SouthernSoulBro experience sounds similar to mine in regards to interactions down south. People tend to express they're stepping back in time in the Sipl and I simply just roll my eyes & yawn.
Last edited by Sharif662; 06-26-2019 at 06:56 PM..
Reason: Emoji didn't show. LoL.
Your general assessment and observation is spot on! I was raised in a lower middle class, 50/50 white/black neighborhood in suburban Charlotte in the 1970’s. There were zero problems whatsoever. We got along wonderfully. Played, Spent the night at each other’s homes. There was a neighborhood in town that was populated with white bikers (The Outlaws) who were very racist towards black people. There was a black neighborhood where my junior high school was located that was very racist toward white people. I’m white and I walked from school to visit a black friend of mine in that neighborhood. I nearly got beat up simply by being there. My friend saw what was going on and saved my neck. Racism knew no particular race. But the majority of my town was like my neighborhood. Everyone got along well. I’ve spent small stints in other areas in the country, but I still live in the suburban Charlotte city where I grew up. Still today, race is a non-issue. When I’m out and about each day, I interact with all kinds of people. We all act neighborly and just see ourselves as a human being, nothing else. If you’re a nice person (white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.), you will be treated wonderfully. If you’re a jerk (white, black, asian, hispanic, etc.), you will get called out. In terms of rural vs. urban when it comes to race in the South, there are some differences, but not huge ones.
My wife and I lived in the Boston area (where my wife was raised) for a year and a half between 2017 and early 2019 helping care for my mother-in-law who is battling Parkinson’s and Dementia. Nearly everyone I met was friendly. Great people. In terms of race, I didn’t see or detect any racist attitudes (nor was I looking). But something I did notice (and something my wife noticed when she first moved to Charlotte in the mid 1980’s) was that there is more day-to-day racial interaction on a personal level in the South than in New England. The many churches here in the Charlotte area and the specific one we attend (and they’re large churches) are very racially diverse. But the church we attended in the Boston area wasn’t racially diverse at all. It’s not an accusation, simply an observation in how false stereotypes run rampant based on TV, movies, personal biases, etc.
The only people I see, regardless of race, having issues about race are people who are obsessed with it. The less we harp on and on about our differences (ie race, religion, regions of the country, age, etc.), the better we get along. Again, good thread.
I agree. My fiance and I have not had many negative experiences in the South as we did in the Midwest. It was odd not to see blacks and whites interact socially, and people not speak or say hello when walking by or entering stores. That is something that really irked me. In New England, Boston was ok, but still not nice like the South.
I agree. My fiance and I have not had many negative experiences in the South as we did in the Midwest. It was odd not to see blacks and whites interact socially, and people not speak or say hello when walking by or entering stores. That is something that really irked me. In New England, Boston was ok, but still not nice like the South.
Sorry to bump this thread, but your comment is very true, at least from my experience.
Growing up in an overwhelmingly white suburb of Boston (I'm white), there were a fair amount of comments made about blacks and other minorities (of course only when the few minorities in my school were not in the room). As a Jew growing up in that town, middle school was hell. Being called a "Jew beggar" having pennies thrown at me was common in the early to mid 90s when I was in 6th grade. But still, we were brought up to believe that the North was so much more tolerant than the South.
Then I finally when to the South. I've never lived there, but I've visited several times and no doubt there's a certain way white people talk when they know that other minorities are not in the room. (I have a funny story about that, but I'll put it at the end).
But what I also noticed overall, was far more blacks in suburban and rural areas and they interacted with whites much more than what I ever saw in my suburb or even when I travel to more diverse cities like Boston, Lowell or Brockton, MA. Maybe if I lived down there, I would see the uglier side of the racism, but the North really shouldn't puff out its chest too much when talking about racism. It exists there, too.
As for my story - I was visiting my hometown a few years back and ran into an old HS buddy at a local bar. The beers starts flowing and he starts flapping on about the Indians moving into town. He told me he didn't like them and how his mother was selling her house, but he prevented her from selling to Indians.
I just smiled, listened and let him carry on, when in reality I had every right to punch his teeth in? Why, cuz my wife Indian (from Malaysia) and he didn't know cuz I didn't tell him. I took the more subtle approach by friending him on facbook and hopefully he saw my picture with my very Indian looking wife next to me in our picture. I wonder if he did ?
As an African American man, I've always thought this was weird. The rural south seems to be the poster child for intolerance. You know the stereotype, dominated by white guys in overalls with pick up trucks with a strong dislike for "minorities." I've even heard blacks from other regions say things such as, "Yeah, I wouldnt get caught dead outside of Metro Atlanta while I'm in GA. I'm not trying to have the KKK coming for me"
It's weird to me because the rural areas and small towns down here are usually anywhere from 25%-65% black, as opposed to the 90%+ white in other regions.
Sure, you have some people the "stereotype" applies to, but most of these towns are a bunch of blacks and whites who've grown up together and get along just fine. As a black male, If I travel through these southern rural towns and make a stop, there's no problem or discomfort. Half or more of the people working at the stores and the patrons are black themselves and the rural whites are used to being around blacks so they dont act strange, I feel comfortable.
In contrast, when I travel through the rural areas of the Midwest and Northeast, I receive awkward looks, mannerism, and there usually isn't many other black people around.
I've just always thought beliefs and comments like the one I mentioned above, particularly by other blacks from places like NYC or Philly, was pretty weird because those 90% white rural areas in states like those sure seem less "accepting" than the ones down here.
Have any of you other AAs ever felt like this while in rural areas outside of the south? Is this a common belief, that the south's rural areas are "worse" and "less tolerant?" I dont see it, and have experienced the opposite.
I am Native American and moved from AZ to the FL Panhandle back in the 2000s. I was concerned with KKK activity. But I learned over time they are rare. I saw old documentaries about the Civil Rights Movement and protests, racist church bombings, race riots, etc. Many of those incidents were from the 1950s and 1960s in the era of "Jim Crow" laws.
I found the modern south to be relatively infrequent for harsh, bigoted racism - albeit it can still occur. The impression I had was that the racism faded over time to the point where there are still "pockets" of racist communities but are scattered and lower in intensity compared to the 1960s. I found that many southerners are actually open to diversity and many were friendly to me - a brown Native American. I even had a southern blone white girlfriend. We used to go to Chick-fil-a - lol.
With that said, I found that if you decompose racism, the pattern is as follows:
Extremely bigoted blatant racism: this has faded in recent decades and is relatively infrequent compared to the 1960s. But it can definitely still happen - just not as much as it used to.
Subtle Racism: this is the one you have to watch out for - it is still very common. It's the type of racism where a white manager may promote a young recent college graduate ahead of an older, darker minority with decades of experience. It also occurs when whites lock the door at the sight of a black man in broad daylight. Resumes with black-sounding names like Jamel, Shanice, Deshawn, etc. will get far less responses than resumes with white-sounding names like Matt, Erin, Jennifer, Emily, Scott, etc.
I thought blatant racism was worse in the midwest compared to the south. The white flight communities of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. stretch out into smaller towns where bigotry can still be pretty bad.
But there is an "O-Henry" twist - colorism. I did notice that the light-skinned versus dark-skinned pattern of black-on-black discrimination is still common. Spike Lee showed it in his classic film "School Daze". I also see a preference for white women from many black athletes at FSU and Florida or Alabama. The reject much darker black women to be with white women who they consider to be far more beautiful. It's colorism. There was a documentary called "Dark Girls" that was made from the woman's perspective about situations like that. It's bizarre how many whites seem oblivious to colorism in the south.
I'm of Asian descent and a native Southerner and I think any kind of separation is not so much between black and white but between SOME blacks and mainstream society, which is mostly white but I found very welcoming and accepting of assimilated minorities. I personally feel very much a regular Southerner and rarely think about my race because its never made to matter. That said, I speak completely American English with many Southernisms, am a Christian, conservative and Republican and listens to country music and shoots guns. I've noticed that people who are not assimilated such as illegal Hispanic aliens and Muslims who insist on wearing their Islamic clothing are less integrated.....not that they're mistreated in any way, but people would just not tend to socialize with them, etc etc.
I think the rural, small town Deep South is the most integrated part of the nation. The urban South is somewhat less integrated than the rural South but still more integrated than the urban Northeast and Midwest. This may be starting to change slightly as hip hop culture is infiltrating more rural black populations too.
I'm originally from the New Orleans but now live in Baton Rouge and in both cities its more about the classic white flight into the suburbs than any holdovers from the Jim Crow days. The mentality of people in the outer suburbs of BR and the Northshore of NO are actually very similar to people I've met in the Baltimore suburbs. Yes I've met a couple admit racists who yearn for the 50s, but for the most part comments people interpret as "racist" tend to deal with black thugs, gangs, and illegal immigrants.
I'm used to being the only Asian person around. I also lived in southern West Virginia, the Upper South, which was over 95% white and I was able to totally fit in. West Virginia was probably the most color blind place I've ever experienced though. The small number of minorities were all very assimilated into the "redneck" culture and were indistuinguisable from anyone else socially, religiously, or politically. So its not like in Louisiana where when you have a black person you don't know very well in the room you are careful not to trash Obama or be too openly pro-Trump because that black is most likely a Democrat. In WV, chances are that black, Asian or Hispanic person is exactly the same as you. In Louisiana when there are no black people around, everyone feels free to trash Obama, illegal aliens, etc.
What people don't realize is that the most "racist sounding" white person isn't the guy from a 50% black town in Mississippi who played football with his black neighbors whom he shares a culture with. It's not the stereotypical hillbilly who grew up in a holler in West Virginia who hasn't been exposed to many minorities before. It's the white person from Baltimore, Detroit, Los Angeles or Chicago who saw his neighborhood destroyed by illegal immigration or ghettoization and has been forced to "flee" further into the suburbs, and is now rightfully very wary of who is moving in next door. At least that's been my own experience.
Now last, I personally don't use the N word, but I know both whites and black in Louisiana, West Virginia and Maryland who use it, but when they use it they're never referring to ALL black people. So even if someone uses that word I don't automatically assume they're racist. Some of them have blacks in their immediate family. And I've heard several Asian, Hispanic and blacks here who have said people who don't speak English shouldn't be here and that the border should be closed and that anyone caught sneaking into the country should be shot. So again there's a difference between political correctness and racism.
I mentioned this in another thread, but the aspect of black people moving to the North wasn’t necessarily strictly to urban areas. In the case of parts of NY State like some small towns/cities in between Syracuse and Rochester, as well as in between Rochester and Buffalo, the Champlain Valley and the Hudson Valley/Catskills areas, among some others. Many came to work as farm workers from FL, GA and even the Caribbean. So, there are actually select small towns with a visible/substantial black population/community.
Later, some may move into the nearby cities or commute to those cities/areas for work.
It is definitely NOT more tolerant. I live in a county with a medium city as a county seat, about an hour from two major cities, yet I've struggled to find a boyfriend as a young gay man. I even struggled to make friends at all initially and good ones for quite some time.
Also, I was ridiculed for my autism/sensitivity in 5th grade and 6th grade (up until being homeschooled, full story here) by a group of boys whose leader I had a crush on. Mom's family has a history of severe racism and homophobia (mom herself isn't like that, though), while dad's family is full of somewhat sexist people (even normally tolerant women). Dad's work environment is no less conservative than my school environment was. My friends have literally never known a single gay/bi guy out in this area nor even heard of any in school.
You consider that tolerant?! It can even get far, FAR worse than what I've experienced. I've never had slurs used against me, been beaten, attempted suicide (although I've thought about it sometimes), believed I was trans (trans people have it horribly) nor had someone trying to kill me. I've not been neglected by my parents (well, maybe emotionally unintentionally, but not physically nor deliberately neglected). I'm not friendless, and I unwittingly isolated myself the ~2.5yrs I was.
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