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View Poll Results: Fastest evolving place of the three?
Greater Miami/Fort Lauderdale (MIA) 24 20.87%
Greater Toronto Area (the GTA) 44 38.26%
Greater Washington DC (the DMV) 47 40.87%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-06-2016, 09:17 PM
 
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Washington DC





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Old 08-07-2016, 07:36 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 2,489,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Yes, but even three decades ago Toronto was the largest metropolitan area in Canada (it surpassed Montreal in the mid 70s), but since then it has pulled so far ahead that it truly does dominate Canada now almost like London dominates the U.K.
Again, an exaggeration. Dominates in what? Yes Toronto has a larger economy and a larger city-proper population (2.6 million due to annexation of former suburbs vs. Montreal's 1.7 million urban population). But in culture and history? Canada was founded as a confederation of English and French regions, and Montreal to this day is the definitive cultural, political, and economic capital of French Canada. Very few people in French speaking Canada pay attention to the cultural events in Toronto - because things like TIFF, Caribana, and Pride all have their equivalents in Quebec - Jazz Festival, Heavy Montreal, Just for Laughs, Cirque du Soleil are all world class cultural giants in their own class. Not to mention Montreal and Quebec City's deep history and joie de vivre life style - let's be honest nobody travels from around the world to Toronto to see its "culture" or "history". If any respectable French Canadian wants more culture, a 6-hour flight to Paris, Cannes, Lyon, and Marseille would be on top of their list, not Toronto.

People in Toronto like you have this myopic "center of the universe" attitude that tend to inflate your self-worth while degrading other regional cities. Just because you've managed to build some glass condos over the past decade doesn't automatically make you a world class city. There are MANY world-class cities (Berlin, Rome, Venice, Boston, SF) that have smaller metros but punch way above their weight in terms of history and cultural relevance. And Toronto simply isn't one of them yet regardless of how many poorly planned condo boxes you build while having a substandard transit system that's facing a a $178 million budget deficit and decreasing ridership along with a 2.4% budget cut.

Not a exactly a sign of a "dominant" city is it? Toronto Star: Toronto Transit faces impending crisis with costs rising, ridership decreasing, and budget cuts

Last edited by bostonkid123; 08-07-2016 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 08-07-2016, 07:53 PM
 
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^ The major cities of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all have their own unique history, culture and events but London still dominates them all due to its sheer size and influence. The same thing is happening to Toronto now.

The TTC isn't declining in ridership, it just hasn't met expectations of projected growth in recent years. Ridership is holding steady or increasing at lower than projected growth.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:04 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 2,489,301 times
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Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
^ The major cities of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales all have their own unique history, culture and events but London still dominates them all due to its sheer size and influence. The same thing is happening to Toronto now.
Pray inform us exactly how does Toronto "dominate" (you seem to love to use that word for special effect) Francophone culture? Almost 1/3 of Canadian population are Francophone or live in Quebec - so I'd love to learn how Toronto dominates in the Francophone cultural arena. Once again, simply building glass condo boxes does not make you a world class city or in anyway increase your cultural or historical relevance.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:12 PM
 
2,838 posts, read 2,489,301 times
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Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
The TTC isn't declining in ridership, it just hasn't met expectations of projected growth in recent years. Ridership is holding steady or increasing at lower than projected growth.
Yes and I'm sure having a $178 budget deficit and a 2.4% budget cut will greatly contribute to that "growing" ridership in 2017. I'm not blaming the people of Toronto, but Toronto's myopic borderline incompetent city council that just keeps perpetuating these self-inflicted wounds on the people of Toronto.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:25 PM
 
1,673 posts, read 3,788,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Pray inform us exactly how does Toronto "dominate" (you seem to love to use that word for special effect) Francophone culture? Almost 1/3 of Canadian population are Francophone or live in Quebec - so I'd love to learn how Toronto dominates in the Francophone cultural arena. Once again, simply building glass condo boxes does not make you a world class city or in anyway increase your cultural or historical relevance.
Well, obviously Toronto doesn't dominate Francophone culture in Quebec, but as long as Quebec is a province within Canada Toronto will increasingly become more and more influential in all other aspects of Quebec society.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Montreal/Miami/Toronto
1,181 posts, read 838,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Again, an exaggeration. Dominates in what? Yes Toronto has a larger economy and a larger city-proper population (2.6 million due to annexation of former suburbs vs. Montreal's 1.7 million urban population). But in culture and history? Canada was founded as a confederation of English and French regions, and Montreal to this day is the definitive cultural, political, and economic capital of French Canada. Very few people in French speaking Canada pay attention to the cultural events in Toronto - because things like TIFF, Caribana, and Pride all have their equivalents in Quebec - Jazz Festival, Heavy Montreal, Just for Laughs, Cirque du Soleil are all world class cultural giants in their own class. Not to mention Montreal and Quebec City's deep history and joie de vivre life style - let's be honest nobody travels from around the world to Toronto to see its "culture" or "history". If any respectable French Canadian wants more culture, a 6-hour flight to Paris, Cannes, Lyon, and Marseille would be on top of their list, not Toronto.

People in Toronto like you have this myopic "center of the universe" attitude that tend to inflate your self-worth while degrading other regional cities. Just because you've managed to build some glass condos over the past decade doesn't automatically make you a world class city. There are MANY world-class cities (Berlin, Rome, Venice, Boston, SF) that have smaller metros but punch way above their weight in terms of history and cultural relevance. And Toronto simply isn't one of them yet regardless of how many poorly planned condo boxes you build while having a substandard transit system that's facing a a $178 million budget deficit and decreasing ridership along with a 2.4% budget cut.

Not a exactly a sign of a "dominant" city is it? Toronto Star: Toronto Transit faces impending crisis with costs rising, ridership decreasing, and budget cuts
True that, and don't forget Osheaga which is Canadian coachella and the site is expanding to 65K a day, also IleSoniq is becoming a premier EDM fest worldwide, also Montreal has a total of ~250 festivals small and big, with 110 being international. I also agree with the centre of the universe mentality people in Toronto have, hell that and they still think (not all but most people) Montreal is still the same city as it was in 1995, so they don't know that the island has surpassed 2M people, almost 40% of the city are visible minorities (2016 estimate), all the construction going on in the city and all.
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Old 08-07-2016, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Well, obviously Toronto doesn't dominate Francophone culture in Quebec, but as long as Quebec is a province within Canada Toronto will increasingly become more and more influential in all other aspects of Quebec society.
Quebec is not only a province but firstly a nation within Canada. Canada is not a federation, but a confederation. Know the difference. There is a reason why Quebec's legislature is called the National Assembly - Assemblée nationale du Québec, not the Provincial Legislature of Quebec.

Canadian PM: Quebecers form a nation within Canada

And as long as you and other Torontonians don't speak Canada's other official language, Toronto will not influence other aspects of Quebec society - that very idea is ludicrous and will make people laugh if you say it to Montrealais today when you don't even bother to speak their official language.

Last edited by bostonkid123; 08-07-2016 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
23,861 posts, read 29,928,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Well, obviously Toronto doesn't dominate Francophone culture in Quebec, but as long as Quebec is a province within Canada Toronto will increasingly become more and more influential in all other aspects of Quebec society.
I don't really see this happening that much or how it is even possible.


Toronto already exerts a huge influence economically on the entire country including Quebec. Except that it's mostly under the surface and behind the scenes. This is the one area where Toronto has a strong presence in Quebec. And even so, most Canadian companies (and Canadian branches of foreign companies) that are based in the GTA have regional offices in Montreal that run most of their Quebec operations, including stuff like branding, marketing, advertising and even brand selection and other operations.


As for the rest, when it comes to civil society (associations, NGOs, etc.), education, migration, demographics, immigration and of course culture and entertainment, Quebec is basically a self-contained entity that exists and functions distinctly from the Anglo-Canadian equivalent that Toronto admittedly dominates over.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
23,861 posts, read 29,928,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
Yes, but even three decades ago Toronto was the largest metropolitan area in Canada (it surpassed Montreal in the mid 70s), but since then it has pulled so far ahead that it truly does dominate Canada now almost like London dominates the U.K.
This shows a lack of understanding about Canadian and British geography, governance, history and demographics.


The UK is a unitary state that only fairly recently underwent some measure of devolution of powers to some of its constituent entities. But before that it power had been highly centralized in London almost forever and many of the effects of this centralization remain today. It was barely an exaggeration to say that you couldn't put a stop sign at the corner of a rural road in northern Scotland without the decision being made by a bureaucrat in London.


Canada OTOH is a decentralized federation when it comes to a bunch of powers and responsibilities, in addition to being geographically huge and quite divided along linguistic and other lines as well. Canada also has fairly large "population gaps" like the wilderness in northern Ontario and also Quebec that effectively separates two anglo parts of the country, all of which make gravitation towards one specific city less natural.


Another thing is that second-largest city in the UK is barely a quarter of the size of London. The second and third largest cities in Canada are roughly two thirds and one third the size of Toronto.
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