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View Poll Results: Battle of Interstate 70 cities/metros with over 1 million people
Baltimore 5 11.63%
Pittsburgh 5 11.63%
Columbus 0 0%
Indianapolis 1 2.33%
St. Louis 2 4.65%
Kansas City 3 6.98%
Denver 27 62.79%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-11-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: 78745
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Overall, which is most interesting and most well rounded with most to offer newcomers, old timers and vacationers. Please try to keep an open mind and be fair and don't vote for a metro just because you live there.

Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Indianapolis
St. Louis
Kansas City
Denver

Base your answer on the following criteria:

Economy
Cost of living
Safety
Entertainment districts
Downtown
Things to do
Weather
Sports
Scenery
Cleanliness
Aesthetics
Friendliness of the residents
Traffic congestion
Ease of getting around town
Conditions of the streets, boulevards, parkways, and avenues
Vibrancy
Brightest future
Potential future growth

Last edited by Ivory Lee Spurlock; 07-11-2018 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:56 PM
 
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To be fair, Pittsburgh is almost an hour away from I-70.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Objectively, Denver will win this on most of the important criteria (economy, entertainment, things to do, sports, cleanliness, vibrancy, brightest future, potential future growth) and can easily win on the subjective ones as well (weather, scenery, aesthetics, friendliness, ease of getting around, street conditions). It is clearly the largest and most influential out of all of these cities by the important metrics (GDP, MSA/urban area population, influence, etc.). Perhaps cost of living, downtown, traffic congestion and safety are the only areas where Denver might not be in first, but safety appears that it could be better than everywhere on the list except Columbus and maybe Indy (too many conflicting "most dangerous/safe cities' lists to be sure).

Denver wins this in a landslide, unless you're a true urbanist, as Baltimore is the densest and has the best bones/location of the bunch. But decisions aren't just based on objective criteria, so if location/demographics/weather/sports are particular to you, I can see any of these cities being just fine.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
To be fair, Pittsburgh is almost an hour away from I-70.
Was just going to say this.

The answer is Denver.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: 78745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
To be fair, Pittsburgh is almost an hour away from I-70.
When I was making the poll, I took a quick look at the Rand McNally 2018 Road Atlas on pages 2 and 3 to see if I-70 went to Salt Lake City and Pittsburgh.

I could very well see that I-70 ends in Utah but it's not anywhere near the Salt Lake City metro, so I didn't include Salt Lake City.

Then I looked to see if I-70 went thru Pittsburgh, and at 1st glance it looked it like it did, so I included it. For the past 30 or 40 years I was sure I-70 went thru Pittsburgh.

Then when I seen your post, I took a closer look at the map, and it looks like I-70 runs into I-79 just north of Washington, Pennsylvania, about 20 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

On the map of Western Pennsylvania on page 87, where I-70 ends at I-79, it looks like it's definitely apart of the Pittsburgh metro area, the far SW side of the metro area.

However I intentionally left out DC. It looks like I-270 links I-70 to I-95. My reasoning was I-270 is not I-70, so that's why I didnt include DC.

I guess I probably should have included DC in the poll because on the map on page 47 it looks like I-70 ends at I-270 just south of Fredrick, Maryland. It looks like it is very much a part of the DC Metro area, just as much as Washington, Pennsylvania is very much a part of the Pittsburgh Metro area.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Chicago- Hyde Park
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Baltimore metro would be my first pick followed by Denver Metro
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Economy
Unemployment Rate by Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), May 2018:
01. Denver MSA: 2.3%
02. Indianapolis MSA: 3.0%
03. Sant Louis MSA: 3.3%
04. Columbus MSA: 3.5%
05. Kansas City MSA: 3.6%
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 3.6%
07. Baltimore MSA: 4.0%

https://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm

Job Growth in Raw Numbers, May 2017 to May 2018:
01. Denver MSA: + 40,900
02. Baltimore MSA: + 27,700
03. Indianapolis MSA: + 18,500
04. Kansas City MSA: + 16,000
05. Saint Louis MSA: + 12,300
06. Columbus MSA: + 11,700
07. Pittsburgh MSA: + 11,700

Job Growth in Percentage Terms, May 2017 to May 2018:
01. Denver MSA: + 2.80%
02. Indianapolis MSA: + 1.70%
02. Baltimore MSA: + 1.50%
03. Kansas City MSA: + 1.50%
04. Columbus MSA: + 1.10%
05. Pittsburgh MSA: + 1.00%
07. Saint Louis MSA: + 0.90%

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.t03.htm

Size of Economy in Nominal Terms (Gross Domestic Product) by Metropolitan Statistical Area, 2016:
01. Denver MSA: $197.969 Billion
02. Baltimore MSA: $187.395 Billion
03. Saint Louis MSA: $159.888 Billion
04. Pittsburgh MSA: $138.187 Billion
05. Indianapolis MSA: $135.444 Billion
06. Columbus MSA: $130.758 Billion
07. Kansas City MSA: $129.163 Billion

Size of Economy in Real Terms (Gross Domestic Product) by Metropolitan Statistical Area, 2016:
01. Denver MSA: $180.446 Billion
02. Baltimore MSA: $164.545 Billion
03. Saint Louis MSA: $140.712 Billion
04. Pittsburgh MSA: $126.663 Billion
05. Indianapolis MSA: $117.589 Billion
06. Columbus MSA: $114.492 Billion
07. Kansas City MSA: $114.376 Billion

Rate of Economic Growth in Real Terms (Gross Domestic Product) by Metropolitan Statistical Area, 2016:
01. Columbus MSA: + 2.5%
02. Baltimore MSA: + 2.40%
03. Denver MSA: + 2.40%
04. Indianapolis MSA: + 2.10%
05. Kansas City MSA: + 1.00%
06. Saint Louis MSA: + 0.80%
07. Pittsburgh MSA: + 0.10%

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/reg..._metro0917.pdf

Denver is also said to have the most diverse economy in all of the United States. So pretty much if it weren't for Columbus MSA just barely nudging out Denver MSA in Real GDP growth, the entire "economy" category would have been a totally clean sweep by Denver over the rest of the field. All data and information is provided for by government agencies such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Cost of living
I'll keep the "cost of living" category only to housing and omit the taxes and other sort of expenses as those are more complicated to track when comparing so many places all at once.

According to estimates, 70% of all Americans live in single family homes and an estimated 80% have a desire to do so. So lets start with "cost of living" for single family homes first and I will be using information provided for by the National Association of Realtors as they are the most credible source for it in the United States.

http://www.builderonline.com/money/e...omeownership_o

Median Price Point for Single Family Housing by Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Q1 2018:
01. Denver MSA: $441,500
02. Baltimore MSA: $253,700
03. Kansas City MSA: $197,700
04. Columbus MSA: $185,100
05. Indianapolis MSA: $176,100
06. Saint Louis MSA: $162,400

Median Price Point Appreciation on Single Family Housing by Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Q1 2017 to Q1 2018:
01. Denver MSA: + 11.50%
02. Indianapolis MSA: + 10.60%
03. Kansas City MSA: + 10.40%
04. Columbus MSA: + 8.40%
05. Baltimore MSA: + 6.80%
06. Saint Louis MSA: + 4.80%

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/defaul...2018-05-14.pdf

Information for Pittsburgh is not available, one of the only three major places in the United States that is omitted in the 8 years I've been tracking NAR's quarterly updates.

Lets move on to looking at condominium markets now for all markets that data is available for (NAR only reports on markets that have a sufficient number of condominiums both by stock and by sales - all others are omitted).

Median Price Point for Condominium Housing by Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Q1 2018:
01. Baltimore MSA: $195,500
02. Columbus MSA: $152,700
03. Indianapolis MSA: $141,300

Median Price Point Appreciation on Condominium Housing by Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Q1 2017 to Q1 2018:
01. Columbus MSA: + 10.50%
02. Indianapolis MSA: + 8.60%
03. Baltimore MSA: -2.80%

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/defaul...2018-05-14.pdf

Next phase is to move on to the rental market. I'll use a government resource site that tracks monthly rental rates for MSAs across the country.

Monthly Expenditure on Studio Apartments by Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
01. Baltimore MSA: $851
02. Denver MSA: $775
03. Kansas City MSA: $562
04. Saint Louis MSA: $558
05. Pittsburgh MSA: $556
06. Indianapolis MSA: $552
07. Columbus MSA: $532

Monthly Expenditure on One-Bedroom Apartments by Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
01. Baltimore MSA: $1,033
02. Denver MSA: $965
03. Kansas City MSA: $721
04. Pittsburgh MSA: $657
05. Indianapolis MSA: $651
06. Saint Louis MSA: $645
07. Columbus MSA: $638

Monthly Expenditure on Two-Bedroom Apartments by Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
01. Baltimore MSA: $1,298
02. Denver MSA: $1,227
03. Kansas City MSA: $893
04. Saint Louis MSA: $840
05. Columbus MSA: $831
06. Pittsburgh MSA: $827
07. Indianapolis MSA: $809

Monthly Expenditure on Three-Bedroom Apartments by Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
01. Denver MSA: $1,788
02. Baltimore MSA: $1,663
03. Kansas City MSA: $1,219
04. Saint Louis MSA: $1,109
05. Indianapolis MSA: $1,089
06. Columbus MSA: $1,065
07. Pittsburgh MSA: $1,026

Monthly Expenditure on Four-Bedroom Apartments by Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
01. Denver MSA: $2,083
02. Baltimore MSA: $1,934
03. Kansas City MSA: $1,385
04. Saint Louis MSA: $1,284
05. Columbus MSA: $1,243
06. Indianapolis MSA: $1,230
07. Pittsburgh MSA: $1,134

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datas...016summary.odn

Ideally you want high single family and condominium prices to go with a high clip of price appreciation since those are properties that you personally own and their valuations increasing only help your bottom line. The only subsets of people that this would be a disadvantage to are newcomers to a market that are trying to get in, in which case a high single family housing or condominium housing price can serve as a deterrent of sorts. Tough luck, life is hardly ever fair.

With rental rates, ideally you want it to be as low as possible because rental apartments are properties that you do not own. You are at the mercy of the landlord, not just by price points but also by regulations and other factors. You are a tenant, plain and simple. So unless you're the weird type of person that has a smile on their face when paying your rents for something you'll never own, try to get prices as low as possible when renting an apartment. The more money you save not paying in rent is more money that stays in your pocket to save or use towards something else.

Of course there are a multitude of other factors that also go into cost of living as well. Such as taxes, the expenses associated with common goods in the area, utility and water bills, home owners insurance, transportation costs, roadway tolls, electricity bills, service providers covered in the area for things like Internet, television, and various other media platforms and the like. Like I mentioned earlier, finding reliable information for a large host of cities (in this case 7) is difficult, so I will abstain from those factors and keep it to just the housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Safety
Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Violent Crime Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
00. Saint Louis MSA: Data not available
01. Indianapolis MSA: 713.4 per 100,000
02. Baltimore MSA: 710.3 per 100,000
03. Denver MSA: 389.0 per 100,000
04. Pittsburgh MSA: 289.0 per 100,000
05. Columbus MSA: 284.9 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Murder Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Baltimore MSA: 14.1 per 100,000
02. Saint Louis MSA: 11.1 per 100,000
03. Indianapolis MSA: 9.2 per 100,000
04. Columbus MSA: 5.1 per 100,000
05. Pittsburgh MSA: 5.1 per 100,000
06. Denver MSA: 4.3 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Rape Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Denver MSA: 67.0 per 100,000
02. Columbus MSA: 59.7 per 100,000
03. Indianapolis MSA: 46.8 per 100,000
04. Saint Louis MSA: 38.1 per 100,000
05. Baltimore MSA: 32.5 per 100,000
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 22.9 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Robbery Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Baltimore MSA: 276.7 per 100,000
02. Indianapolis MSA: 218.9 per 100,000
03. Columbus MSA: 125.1 per 100,000
04. Saint Louis MSA: 122.5 per 100,000
05. Denver MSA: 86.2 per 100,000
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 82.9 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Aggravated Assault Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
00. Saint Louis MSA: Data not available
01. Baltimore MSA: 386.9 per 100,000
02. Indianapolis MSA: 438.5 per 100,000
03. Denver MSA: 231.5 per 100,000
04. Pittsburgh MSA: 178.1 per 100,000
05. Columbus MSA: 94.9 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Property Crime Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Indianapolis MSA: 3,206.9 per 100,000
02. Denver MSA: 2,954.0 per 100,000
03. Columbus MSA: 2,911.2 per 100,000
04. Baltimore MSA: 2,790.4 per 100,000
05. Saint Louis MSA: 2,490.2 per 100,000
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 1,746.5 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Burglary Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Columbus MSA: 594.4 per 100,000
02. Baltimore MSA: 535.6 per 100,000
03. Saint Louis MSA: 442.5 per 100,000
04. Denver MSA: 435.8 per 100,000
05. Indianapolis MSA: 665.1 per 100,000
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 309.5 per 100,000

Metropolitan Statistical Areas ranked by Motor Vehicle Theft Rate (per 100,000 residents), 2016:
01. Denver MSA: 462.9 per 100,000
02. Indianapolis MSA: 339.0 per 100,000
03. Baltimore MSA: 305.3 per 100,000
04. Saint Louis MSA: 246.3 per 100,000
05. Columbus MSA: 216.1 per 100,000
06. Pittsburgh MSA: 87.2 per 100,000

Information for the most recent year available by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). No information is available for Kansas City MSA.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Things to do
Typically logic dictates that the larger metropolitan area will have more to do, so that goes to Denver just edging over Baltimore and Saint Louis (Denver's standalone CSA is over half-a-million larger than the next standalone CSA among these; whereas by MSA the three of Denver-Baltimore-Saint Louis are identical in size). However, when two places are of similar sizes then look into the geography of the area to break the tie as geographical feature may add to "things to do" for cities and may give some cities an added edge over others in that regard. For instance, Baltimore having a coastline gives it a huge boost because it will appeal to those that love water related activities such as but not limited to: ferries, boating, kayaking, canoeing, fishing, diving, beach, parasailing, wake boarding, jet skiing, kite flying over the ocean, marine animal sighting, and so on and so forth. Baltimore also has hills too. So it comes with both geographic traits, water and elevation. That's just an example, I was not making a case for Baltimore but was only using it as an example for how its geographic features add on to its list of "things to do".

When two cities have around the same size (thus likely having around the same amount of amenities) AND are nearly even geographically, then look towards climate to break the tie as climate will ultimately determine how much of the year you can comfortably be outdoors to do those things. When places are around the same size AND have similar geographic features AND the climate is a toss up, then simply just give it a tie as there is no way to objectively conclude which place takes the lead and which place follows.

In this comparison, however, Denver takes it. It is simply larger than the others as a standalone metropolitan region meaning it likely has the most amenities of them all, has the foothills on the Rockies where the city may serve as a launch pad, AND has the most conducive climate for being outdoors year round. Baltimore is perhaps a close second due to its location on the Chesapeake Bay, that body of water gives it something the other cities cannot match but I suspect in a head-to-head amenities count that Denver still takes it over Baltimore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Weather
Objectively: Given their latitude, all of the cities being compared are at minimum 3 season cities, with nearly all of them (if not all of them altogether) likely having all 4 seasons. At that point it becomes a semantics game of which season you prefer more of as some cities have advantages over others with regards to the length of their seasons, the level of harshness the seasons can bring out, and the predictability factor involved with their respective climates.

Denver is overall the most "mild" of them all I suppose, meaning its seasons don't usually have as much of a brutal factor to them as most of the others which makes it more ideal to being outdoors year round. However, climate in Denver is also the most unpredictable of the lot.

Subjectively (only subjective topic I'll address): I've personally been in Denver on the dates of March 19-21 (in 2016) and it snowed there on the first of those three dates and I am not talking about sprinkles but lots of snow, several feet of snow. I ended up crashing my rental car because its unpredictable weather was just that, unpredictable, I couldn't take into account the snow as it just happened and the car didn't have snow tires and I lost control at a low speed of 20 miles per hour. Luckily, the damage on the car wasn't bad at all, I was on the Interstate in Denver and the car hit a mile marker on the side so it broke the rear-view mirror and scratched the door with a horizontal line scratch going across the door, well put a decent sized dent in it. I was able to swap the car at the rental car facility. Fortunately I always get rental insurance every single time and they covered it but suffice to say I was not happy. I hate winter in general, even one day of it, so on a personal level all of these cities suck for me, but I didn't appreciate the unpredictability associated with the climate where it would snow so late in March or snow in March at all. I booked the rental car 6 months in advance, I always plan all of my cross-global trips months in advance, and the forecast the week before I flew from the United Kingdom to the United States showed nothing in the way of snow in Denver. It just sort of happened as climate is one of those things that can change and cannot be accounted for in advance.

So be mindful of these sorts of things. I don't blame the city of Denver for my experience but it is what it is, when you have crazy unpredictable weather you'll take heat and fair criticism for that because not everyone appreciates that sort of thing. I definitely don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Sports
Denver first, it has all 5 professional sports leagues of NBA, NHL, NFL, MLS, and MLB. Followed by Pittsburgh and Kansas City with 3 out of 5. Pittsburgh has NHL, NFL, and MLB. Kansas City has NFL, MLS, and MLB. Then you have a four way tie of the other places that all have 2 out of 5. Columbus has NHL and MLS (for now). Baltimore has NFL and MLB. Saint Louis has NHL and MLB. Finally, Indianapolis has NBA and NFL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Scenery
On well roundedness, Baltimore. Again, it has elevation and (a large body of) water. I'm not talking about a river or stream or a sizable lake sort of body of water but a large body of water connected to the ocean.

On pure dramatic instincts, then Denver. While much of Denver itself is nothing special scenery wise, being on the foothills of the most prominent mountain region on the North American continent is a complete advantage over most places other than places that have both dramatic mountains and the ocean.

Having both elevations and water is always better than having just one of them. Always, as it expands the number of things you can do in an area by several folds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Traffic congestion
Ranked by Congestion Level:
01. Denver
02. Baltimore
03. Pittsburgh
04. Saint Louis
05. Kansas City
06. Indianapolis

Columbus was not ranked.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic...=NA&country=US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Potential future growth
Using a snapshot of the present decade, which is the 2010s decades, it is as follows.

Growth by Metropolitan Statistical Areas in Raw Numbers, 2010-2017:
01. Denver MSA: + 344,745
02. Columbus MSA: + 176,751
03. Indianapolis MSA: + 140,737
04. Kansas City MSA: + 119,570
05. Baltimore MSA: + 97,686
06. Saint Louis MSA: + 19,637
07. Pittsburgh MSA: -22,918

Growth by Metropolitan Statistical Areas in Percentage Terms, 2010-2017:
01. Denver MSA: + 13.55%
02. Columbus MSA: + 9.29%
03. Indianapolis MSA: + 7.45%
04. Kansas City MSA: + 5.95%
05. Baltimore MSA: + 3.60%
06. Saint Louis MSA: + 0.70%
07. Pittsburgh MSA: −0.97%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas

I didn't bother touching the criteria points that are largely subjective (other than one minor point on weather). I think Denver is the objective best of the bunch and subjectively for me personally, it is also the one that I personally would go with as my choice too.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
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^ Wow! Someone has a lot of free time on their hands!!!!
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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@FactsKillRhetoric-
Regarding things to do in Denver-all the usual big city stuff, e.g. great art museum, zoo, natural history museum (called Museum of Nature and Science), botanic gardens (2 sites), historical society (Colorado History Museum), plus the state capitol building, parks, bars, restaurants, sports (in season major league football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer). Plus, the best skiing in the country anywhere from 1 - 2 hours away, mountain climbing (53 mountain peaks >14,000 ft above sea level, starting from 5000'), hiking, camping, mountain biking, many other outdoor activities.

Climate-bizarre. Can be 70 degrees on New Year's Day and 70 degrees on the 4th of July for highs. Can also be below zero (though rarely) in winter, average of 40 days above 90 degrees and I believe 1 day above 100 (already had one, I hope no more). Very dry, low humidity, lots of sunshine. I have seen snow in September and snow in June. It snowed the day my daughter graduated from high school, June 5, 2005. And I've seen 70 degree days in December/January. Snow doesn't last long. Can have wild thunderstorms in summer. Fun once you get used to it.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
Objectively, Denver will win this on most of the important criteria (economy, entertainment, things to do, sports, cleanliness, vibrancy, brightest future, potential future growth) and can easily win on the subjective ones as well (weather, scenery, aesthetics, friendliness, ease of getting around, street conditions). It is clearly the largest and most influential out of all of these cities by the important metrics (GDP, MSA/urban area population, influence, etc.). Perhaps cost of living, downtown, traffic congestion and safety are the only areas where Denver might not be in first, but safety appears that it could be better than everywhere on the list except Columbus and maybe Indy (too many conflicting "most dangerous/safe cities' lists to be sure).

Denver wins this in a landslide, unless you're a true urbanist, as Baltimore is the densest and has the best bones/location of the bunch. But decisions aren't just based on objective criteria, so if location/demographics/weather/sports are particular to you, I can see any of these cities being just fine.
No.

Denver wins if you are single and want to live downtown or if you really would hit up the mountains every other weekend. If you look at the stats, it's single people living near downtown that is the big bump in population increase Denver's had. Other than that, it's not as shiny as the stats make it appear. It's kinda rough for middle income families.

It's one of the worst metros in the nation to be a first time home buyer. The COL eats up any economic gains, unless you're a top earner. It's got the worst traffic. Cleanliness, it's either at or near the bottom (I haven't seen Baltimore or St. Louis) due to air quality and air smell, the homeless problem, trash around the city (Pittsburgh is noticeably cleaner, although more run down), superfund sites, and the crappy riverfronts.

I thought downtown Pittsburgh was much nicer than Denver from an architecture and natural setting perspective. Colorado's state capitol is just a disgrace with how bad it's been trashed. Denver's natural setting is a bit of a letdown. The pretty Colorado is a decent drive away.

On the other hand, Denver is the safest city and rent prices aren't too bad and there really is a lot to do.

I don't know which one I'd pick as the winner as I haven't been to enough of these cities. I'm really curious about Indy and St. Louis. Baltimore doesn't appeal to me. Stat wise, it looks like Columbus and Indy are pretty much ahead of KC in every regard. It looks like the natural settings are better too.

Last edited by Phil P; 07-11-2018 at 07:39 PM..
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