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If Chicago-Milwaulkee happens as a CSA, then Baltimore-DC-Richmond would happen also. I don't see it. Heck why don't we just make it a big gigantic CSA party on the East Coast, Richmond to New Hampshire!
Currently I understand CSA's and their definitions and inclusions. If they start chaining together like that then you're talking "megalopolis" instead of CSA. Those are already loosely defined. Theoretically you could chain commuting patterns from Boston to Richmond in the NE megalopolis, I don't think that should ever be a comparison metric because regions 500 miles apart from each other are not truly linked. Who knows maybe one day the US will be like Coruscant, then it would be really hard to debate what's what
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by mjlo
Currently I understand CSA's and their definitions and inclusions. If they start chaining together like that then you're talking "megalopolis" instead of CSA. Those are already loosely defined. Theoretically you could chain commuting patterns from Boston to Richmond in the NE megalopolis, I don't think that should ever be a comparison metric because regions 500 miles apart from each other are not truly linked. Who knows maybe one day the US will be like Coruscant, then it would be really hard to debate what's what
If i'm not mistaken you can already now take regional rail down from the Boston area into Maryland realistically.
and on this this is the same logic when I say the overlap creates dollars and value for close places.
Apples and Oranges. This is irrelevent because you cant claim MSA/CSA criteria to justify combining Urbanized Areas and vice versa.
1 million people from the SF MSA are not included in the SF UA because of undeveloped hills but Im not going to whine incessantly about it.
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When I say Philly is under represented especially on wealth you argue it only counts when included in a CSA or MSA.
Ive never argued anything of the sort, its you who wants to distort the MSA/CSA rules to suit your agenda.
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Then why are the border CSA and MSA counties on both the Philly and NYC sides some of the wealthiest in the country. If Bucks county or Hunterdon NJ etc have 28% and 22% going either way why only say the 28% matters etc. for commuters.
Sorry. Tiny counties are NOT enough to justify merging. Yhe rules stipulate that 15%+ of the employees from the 'CORE COUNTIES' of one MSA must commute to the core counties of another MSA. What a foolish expectation it is to say that a tiny place like Burlington, NJ is some huge game changer.
lol cant help but laugh.
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NYC and Philly with Mercer in between overlap and both areas get the wealth generated from the very high paying jobs. Hunterdon is as wealthy as bay area counties, even moreso then many on this border. I grew up close to the border and spent time in both MSAs without even realizing because they are not distinct in reality nor are the dollars
Im happy for your experience but the Office of Management and Budget is in charge of all of this.
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the inner Bay is one and is an issue with the census criteria no doubt Stockton, not so much it just has a commuter element not the same place just as Doylestown and Pennington are not the same place though even closer mileage wise
Stockton, more specifically San Joaquin county, meets the commuter flow requirement to be merged into the Bay Area CSA.
If Chicago-Milwaulkee happens as a CSA, then Baltimore-DC-Richmond would happen also. I don't see it. Heck why don't we just make it a big gigantic CSA party on the East Coast, Richmond to New Hampshire!
Richmond would add something like 1,500,000 to the total population for Balt-DC-Richmond. It's interesting how some think Chicago-Milwaukee CSA can't happen. There was a time in history where one could take the train from downtown Milwaukee and INTO Chicago's Loop...as in the train would run along the same tracks as present day CTA trains. There's a history of traveling between these two places. Additionally, there's like three to four miles of sparsely developed land between their exurbs (Chicago-Milwaukee) and there's talk of extending Chicago's commuter rail (Metra) to Milwaukee. Amtrak already makes the trip and there is a sizable population that uses the service to commute between Chicago's northern suburbs and Metro Milwaukee. Take away: the commuting patterns between Lake Co., IL and southeastern Wisconsin are already existing and will continue to strengthen overtime.
IF the Balt-DC CSA becomes larger than Chicago's CSA, it's meaningless at the end of the day. Chicago is still clearly larger than both of these places. Anyone who legitimately feels differently has clearly never spent time in Chicago, Baltimore, or DC.
I think Chicagoland CSA and DC-Baltimore CSAs are kind of like sister CSAs.
And DCs and Baltimore's outer suburban belts have clearly overlapped and interlinked. A cursory glance of the region on Google Maps shows this. Just like the middle and outer suburban rings of Chicagoland, the only green, open, non-urban space is that which is protected.
Chicagoland is obviously one huge city, while small suburban towns orbiting and revolving around the big city, whereas DC-Baltimore is a complex of small big cities.
Also, I know this gets dangerously close to "trollish" or inflammatory things to say, but seriously:
Chicago is better if you are white and American born (or you have connections if you aren't).
DC-Baltimore is better than Chicago if you are African American or foreign born.
I say this because the north side neighborhoods of Chicago are some of the nicest, most attractive urban neighborhoods in the country but tend to be rather homogenous. While comparatively Chicago's foreign born neighborhoods are gritty, and many if not most of the AA neighborhoods are warzones. Conversely DC obviously has well connected diplomats/consulates/embassies of every nation, and has some of the largest swaths of well off Black/AA areas anywhere in the US (IE: Prince Georges County).
I feel like people who aren't from the East Coast are overly impressed with continuous development. Development is pretty much continuous from Richmond to New Hampshire. Continuous development does not equal a contiguous metro.
I think Chicagoland CSA and DC-Baltimore CSAs are kind of like sister CSAs.
And DCs and Baltimore's outer suburban belts have clearly overlapped and interlinked. A cursory glance of the region on Google Maps shows this. Just like the middle and outer suburban rings of Chicagoland, the only green, open, non-urban space is that which is protected.
Chicagoland is obviously one huge city, while small suburban towns orbiting and revolving around the big city, whereas DC-Baltimore is a complex of small big cities.
Also, I know this gets dangerously close to "trollish" or inflammatory things to say, but seriously:
Chicago is better if you are white and American born (or you have connections if you aren't).
DC-Baltimore is better than Chicago if you are African American or foreign born.
I say this because the north side neighborhoods of Chicago are some of the nicest, most attractive urban neighborhoods in the country but tend to be rather homogenous. While comparatively Chicago's foreign born neighborhoods are gritty, and many if not most of the AA neighborhoods are warzones. Conversely DC obviously has well connected diplomats/consulates/embassies of every nation, and has some of the largest swaths of well off Black/AA areas anywhere in the US (IE: Prince Georges County).
I'm over these stereotypes. Most people I've interacted with in Chicago (regardless of economic status) are not racist/prejudice. While Chicago's black community living in the crime-ridden pockets of the south side has issues, black professionals in Chicago can (and do) do very well. There has been some black-flight in recent years, but I think that's more likely a perception issue rather than the direct result of actual/overt racism. Chicago also has a LOOOOONG history of immigration. What makes you think foreigners are treated any worse?
I think the real questions here is does it really matter? Chicago is still obviously the larger city and if/when Chicago/Milwaukee combine forces this discussion will be put to rest (until Balt-DC eventually comes for Philly, unless NYC gets there first). The Chicago-Milwaukee CSA will probably be around 14-15 million when it happens...
Of course it doesn't matter (in the real world)...almost of the DC folks in this thread have acknowledged that Chicago will feel bigger and is the more unified CSA etc etc...its not really the DC boosters creating problems this time
The CSA metric is what it is however
I'm over these stereotypes. Most people I've interacted with in Chicago (regardless of economic status) are not racist/prejudice. While Chicago's black community living in the crime-ridden pockets of the south side has issues, black professionals in Chicago can (and do) do very well. There has been some black-flight in recent years, but I think that's more likely a perception issue rather than the direct result of actual/overt racism. Chicago also has a LOOOOONG history of immigration. What makes you think foreigners are treated any worse?
Woah . . . I actually wasn't suggesting that the people themselves were racist or prejudice, but rather suggesting that an already existing large community of minority of foreign born professionals can make it that much easier for a newcomer to adjust and succeed. Yes I absolutely am not suggesting that affluent Chicago neighborhoods are racist or prejudice to minorities or foreigners, in fact the opposite is true. However, a minority or foreigner professional might feel self conscious like they stick out. DC however is known for already existing communities of African Americans and international professionals. That's all I'm saying.
I feel like people who aren't from the East Coast are overly impressed with continuous development. Development is pretty much continuous from Richmond to New Hampshire. Continuous development does not equal a contiguous metro.
But when looks at google maps at I-95, one clearly sees a few pockets of open, green space surrounded by development between DC and Baltimore. When one examines the spaces between DC and Richmond or between Baltimore and Philly, one does see some longer stretches of largely forest and fields, with small towns.
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