Does Toronto's urban structure have more in common with large US Midwest Cities or large US Northeast Cities? (districts, building)

[King of Kensington]

Originally Posted by Bloomfield1

Chicago, Washington and Boston all have significantly larger rail systems than Toronto. Rail passenger counts are roughly similar between Washington, Chicago and Toronto, with Boston slightly behind, probably owing to the fact that Toronto is in a much more transit-oriented nation, with even sprawl dwellers using transit.

But I think the vast majority of choice commuters would agree than Chicago, Boston, and DC have (at the least) equal systems to Toronto, and most would agree these three systems are somewhat better than that of Toronto. Philly too, and possibly SF. Toronto's only obvious advantage is better service in the sprawly parts of the region (which is characteristic of all Canadian cities).

LOL. Where will you find all these "choice commuters" with an intricate knowledge of all these systems for your "survey" (that would obviously conclude that Toronto is the worst of the four of course)? Good luck with that.

Another area where Toronto performs well is integration with surface transit. Something that just looking at the subway maps won't tell you.

[Othello Is Here]

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

LOL. Where will you find all these "choice commuters" with an intricate knowledge of all these systems for your "survey" (that would obviously conclude that Toronto is the worst of the four of course)? Good luck with that.

Another area where Toronto performs well is integration with surface transit. Something that just looking at the subway maps won't tell you.

To be fair he did say "equal to".

[King of Kensington]

My guess is frustrated commuters in all cities will view the grass as greener somewhere else. For all we know, people in say DC may think Canada is some sort of Northern European-type welfare state with incredible transit and public services.

[King of Kensington]

Returning to the topic at hand, it seems SW Ontario cities like Kitchener, London and Windsor feel rather Midwestern. Toronto and Hamilton seem to be on the edge of the Northeast, in a Pittsburgh sort of way.

[bostonkid123]

Originally Posted by Bloomfield1

Not true. Toronto has about 12% higher ridership than Chicago, a difference, but not a particularly substantial one.

Per most recent comparative transit data (Q1 2016) Chicago had about 76 million heavy rail passengers, and Toronto had about 86 million heavy rail passengers.

Source-
http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.PDF

Why are you only counting "heavy rail" passengers? Last time I checked, heavy rail is only one part of public transit. What about light rail? Streetcars? Buses? Bus Rapid Transit? Municipal Bike Sharing membership? Toronto has 11 dedicated streetcar and light rail lines, interconnected with the existing subway network - the streetcar lines alone bring in 91.5 million ridership per year as of 2014, the second highest in the world in terms of light rail ridership after Melbourne Australia. Shouldn't that be counted as "public transit" as well?

The only reason Toronto's heavy rail (subway) numbers are subdued is because the city has barely 4 subway lines, while Chicago has a much longer system with more stations system wide. At the moment, all 4 subway lines in Toronto are at or over capacity even with automated train controls running trains every 1-2 minutes during rush hour. TTC is currently building 2 new light rail lines and 1 new subway line, which will dramatically increase capacity and trackage starting in 2020.

As for other forms of heavy rail, Ontario's Regional Express Rail program is currently the largest urban public transit project happening in North America, with $13.5 billion of public funds committed to converting 7 existing commuter rail lines into electrified rapid transit with 10 min frequencies system-wide. Construction has already started on 2 lines - Lakeshore East and Lakeshore West - and will wrap up in 2022.

[Othello Is Here]

Originally Posted by bostonkid123

Why are you only counting "heavy rail" passengers? Last time I checked, heavy rail is only one part of public transit. What about light rail? Streetcars? Buses? Bus Rapid Transit? Municipal Bike Sharing membership? Toronto has 11 dedicated streetcar and light rail lines, interconnected with the existing subway network - the streetcar lines alone bring in 91.5 million ridership per year as of 2014, the second highest in the world in terms of light rail ridership after Melbourne Australia. Shouldn't that be counted as "public transit" as well?

The only reason Toronto's heavy rail (subway) numbers are subdued is because the city has barely 4 subway lines, while Chicago has a much longer system with more stations system wide. At the moment, all 4 subway lines in Toronto are at or over capacity even with automated train controls running trains every 1-2 minutes during rush hour. TTC is currently building 2 new light rail lines and 1 new subway line, which will dramatically increase capacity and trackage starting in 2020.

As for other forms of heavy rail, Ontario's Regional Express Rail program is currently the largest urban public transit project happening in North America, with $13.5 billion of public funds committed to converting 7 existing commuter rail lines into electrified rapid transit with 10 min frequencies system-wide. Construction has already started on 2 lines - Lakeshore East and Lakeshore West - and will wrap up in 2022.

Is there a rapid line of some sorts to connect Montreal and Toronto? I just drove from Montreal to Toronto and its not a fun drive. Im surprised if nothing is out there as Im sure this trip is the most traveled in Canada

[bostonkid123]

Originally Posted by Othello Is Here

Is there a rapid line of some sorts to connect Montreal and Toronto? I just drove from Montreal to Toronto and its not a fun drive. Im surprised if nothing is out there as Im sure this trip is the most traveled in Canada

Yep, it's operated by a crown corporation called VIA Rail, the equivalent of Amtrak in America. I've taken the trip by train many times, it's can be as fast as 4 hours or more than 5 hours, depending on which route option you choose. Daily basis, there are about 10-15 trips each way between Toronto and Montreal, with economy seating prices starting at $40 CAD (heavily subsidized by government). http://www.viarail.ca/en

Like Ontario's Regional Express Rail plan, VIA Rail is also in the midst of a major system upgrade, converting from diesel to electric high frequency rail in order to compete with the airlines. All of this is coinciding with Justin Trudeau's liberal government coming to power last year, as infrastructure and public transit investment is a top priority portfolio for the new government.

As for urban public transit, the influx of public funding has created the equivalent of a public transit "renaissance" in Southern Ontario. In the province of Ontario alone, there are 8 new light rail and subway lines UNDER CONSTRUCTION at the moment, 3 in Toronto, 1 in Mississauga, 1 in Hamilton, 1 in Waterloo, and 2 new lines in the City of Ottawa.

[King of Kensington]

I'd love to see high speed rail along the Windsor to Quebec City corridor.

[Atticman]

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

Returning to the topic at hand, it seems SW Ontario cities like Kitchener, London and Windsor feel rather Midwestern. Toronto and Hamilton seem to be on the edge of the Northeast, in a Pittsburgh sort of way.

I agree. The old inner city areas of Toronto, Hamilton and Pittsburgh are all dominated by tightly spaced brick single family homes mixed with rowhouses, and many neighbourhood commercial strips of gritty looking old storefronts.

[Atticman]

Manning Ave. heading towards Queen West, a gritty looking and very urban residential Toronto street. Obviously not all streets in Toronto look like this (most have more trees and a mix of rows, semis and SFH) but there are more than enough streets in the inner city that do look like this, and that's why it's hard to lump Toronto's built environment in with places like Cleveland or Milwaukee (or most other midwestern cities) where for the most part, they just didn't build residential streets that look like this.

https://goo.gl/maps/HySmNS2KWY82