Does Toronto's urban structure have more in common with large US Midwest Cities or large US Northeast Cities? (difference, safe)

[King of Kensington]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Toronto isn't really a rowhouse city. They exist, of course, but the housing typology is like other Great Lakes cities, even in the inner city.

Older homes tend to be detached, with setbacks, like you would see in Buffalo, Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee.

I wouldn't quite say that. Detached housing south of say, Dupont, is very much in the minority among SFHs.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

I wouldn't quite say that. Detached housing south of say, Dupont, is very much in the minority among SFHs.

I don't think that's close to true. Toronto neighborhoods south of Dupont are overwhelmingly detached homes, not really different from any other Great Lake city cores.

How is this different from inner city Detroit or Cleveland? I mean, the architecture and style, not the relative desirability or intactness. Obviously Toronto has a much healthier core, but a similar residential typology.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6730...7i13312!8i6656

There's nothing like this close to the cores of NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Boston and DC.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by Atticman

It's only once you get further away from downtown (particularly to the North) that detached homes start to dominate, as for the closer in neighbourhoods East and West of downtown, rowhouses are often the dominant typology. Take a cruise up this street on streetview. https://goo.gl/maps/B5VexDbSvz32

There are hundreds of streets similar to this in the old city, I live on one!

Even Toronto's neighbourhoods with fully detached homes don't really look similar to those in the cities you listed above.

I don't get why Toronto forumers keep harping on this point. It quite obviously isn't true, and even your (very non-typical for Toronto) Streetview looks very much like Great Lakes/Midwest cities, and very unlike the Northeast Corridor cities.

Your Streetview looks like Cincy or St. Louis or Milwaukee or Louisville. Doesn't look like Eastern cities.

[King of Kensington]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

I don't think that's close to true. Toronto neighborhoods south of Dupont are overwhelmingly detached homes, not really different from any other Great Lake city cores.

That stats say otherwise. 25% of housing in inner Toronto is made of SFHs. Of that 12% are detached homes. So no, not "overwhelmingly."

http://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20T...ile%202011.pdf

Toronto is not a rowhouse city like Philly. But it's not Cleveland/Detroit either where the first ring of housing from downtown is detached.

Semis seem to big in Ontario, not so much in the US (except maybe in Queens or in some PA cities).

[citylover94]

Originally Posted by Atticman

It's only once you get further away from downtown (particularly to the North) that detached homes start to dominate, as for the closer in neighbourhoods East and West of downtown, rowhouses are often the dominant typology. Take a cruise up this street on streetview. https://goo.gl/maps/B5VexDbSvz32

There are hundreds of streets similar to this in the old city, I live on one!

Even Toronto's neighbourhoods with fully detached homes don't really look similar to those in the cities you listed above.

But that looks nothing like this which is what a typical row house neighborhood looks like in Boston. Or this which is a typical apartment dominated area.

I just don't see much of a resemblance in the built form of the area whereas I see much more similarity in this streetview.

[trainrover]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

I don't get why Toronto forumers keep harping

Me, I think it's because they mistake their remarkably-mild caring as being authentic. So far for me, King of Kensington is the lone passionate one; his lucidity's a relief in threads I browse. One of many other telling clues for me is the number of youtube hits from searching for drone-flight footage there: out of more than 1 dozen`s worth, filming was unrefreshingly limited to being between and above tower blocks. All sorts of urban fabric where I live are documented by drones, it's exciting seeing what fellow islanders lovingly celebrate.

[bostonkid123]

Originally Posted by trainrover

Me, I think it's because they mistake their remarkably-mild caring as being authentic. So far for me, King of Kensington is the lone passionate one; his lucidity's a relief in threads I browse. One of many other telling clues for me is the number of youtube hits from searching for drone-flight footage there: out of more than 1 dozen`s worth, filming was unrefreshingly limited to being between and above tower blocks. All sorts of urban fabric where I live are documented by drones, it's exciting seeing what fellow islanders lovingly celebrate.

Huh?

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

I don't think that's close to true. Toronto neighborhoods south of Dupont are overwhelmingly detached homes, not really different from any other Great Lake city cores.

How is this different from inner city Detroit or Cleveland? I mean, the architecture and style, not the relative desirability or intactness. Obviously Toronto has a much healthier core, but a similar residential typology.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6730...7i13312!8i6656

There's nothing like this close to the cores of NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Boston and DC.

These houses are different from those in Detroit or Cleveland. They are more similar to those in many parts of Philly, esp University City, as they are twins. But American comparisons are tough. Even with these houses, you see that Toronto, at least in this area, doesn't have tree lawns as the sidewalks run along the curb. So obviously houses are generally closer to the street and, I'd guess, blocks are a bit less wide -- meaning you can fit more houses into a block as composed to those of most American cities. But still even this Toronto street is narrower than what I see in the Midwest. Again, it seems more akin to Philly or Boston, not Detroit, Cleveland or Milwaukee.

[citylover94]

I can't speak for Philly but in Boston there are some outer neighborhoods that can seem similar but it is very rare for buildings to be set back more than 5 or 6 feet from the street and most of the buildings are apartments not row houses or duplexes as seems to be the case in most of Toronto's neighborhoods. It just seems more similar to urban neighborhoods in Chicago or other midwestern cities where there are more setbacks and less apartment buildings.

Examples:

South Boston

Dorchester

Roxbury

Mattapan

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

That stats say otherwise. 25% of housing in inner Toronto is made of SFHs. Of that 12% are detached homes. So no, not "overwhelmingly."

If those stats are true, they confirm that Toronto is like other Great Lakes cities, and not like Northeast Corridor cities, because the % of attached SFH is quite small.

If only 13% of housing in the very core is "semi-detached" or "attached", then it's clear the "attached" number is small (probably <5%), given the fact that semi-detached housing is quite common in inner-city Toronto (and other Great Lakes cities) and rare in the Northeast Corridor.

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

Toronto is not a rowhouse city like Philly. But it's not Cleveland/Detroit either where the first ring of housing from downtown is detached.

Again, your own posted stats confirm that Toronto is more like those cities than those in the Northeast corridor.

An inner-city Toronto neighborhood has (more or less) the same SFH housing stock as an inner-city Detroit neighborhood. Obviously the Toronto neighborhood will be more desirable and nicer-looking, but the historical fabric is largely the same.