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I just hope I get to see high speed rail in the US during my lifetime. At least in the East coast or even just the Northeast. I think as the worlds most wealthy and powerful nation, it is embarrassing how far behind we are in this category compared to many places in Europe and Asia. This is definitely a step in the right direction. This gives me some hope!
I share that sentiment. The Northeast Corridor has a string of large to mid-sized cities that have serviceable to great alternatives to using other modes of transport once in downtown of these cities and it makes a great deal of sense to expand and improve intercity train services within the region. DC also has three mid-sized metros (Richmond, Tidewater region, and Pittsburgh) where improved rail transit, not necessarily high-speed, would be greatly appreciated. Of the regions that currently have the qualities where HSR makes sense in Canada/US (Cascadia, California, Upper Midwest, Windsor Corridor and the Northeast), the Northeast stands out as the most cost-effective and reasonable to do so.
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Originally Posted by North 42
Well Ontario is currently planning for HSR from Toronto through to Windsor, with extensions eventually to the Quebec border, then to Montreal and Quebec City, with the province of Quebec being in control of that section. The plan is to eventually connect to future HSR in Detroit, which would eventually be extended to Chicago, and from Toronto to possibly Buffalo, which would hopefully be extended to NYC.
Yea, that's a good goal. The three megapolises of the Windsor Corridor, the US Great Lakes/Upper Midwest, and the Northeast are all close to each other and have multiple cities where HSR routes are in the right range of distances to make this make sense. The corridors that connect these three are east-west from Buffalo to NYC through New York State and from there to Chicago or Toronto, New York City to Montreal, Philadelphia to Pittsburgh through Pennsylvania and DC to Pittsburgh from which Pittsburgh runs to the Upper Midwest, and a through-running train from Chicago that goes through Detroit-Windsor to Toronto. These routes currently exist but need a lot of investment to improve both speed and frequency, but this is a multi-nodal network (as opposed to single corridors) that have the properties of many mid to large cities where HSR can actually be competitive on multiple legs of this network with both driving and flying. It's basically the closest thing to the network that western Europe has and has been very successful in leveraging that the US-Canada has.
The good thing is that the rust belt cities that are in the middle of these main anchor points of Toronto, Chicago, and the Northeast Corridor, all seem to have stabilized their loss and might have hit an inflection point where they can see growth again in the coming decade. Investing in better passenger and freight rail in the corridors connecting the largest cities that will need to traverse these former manufacturing giants can play a key role in giving these places a boost. It remains to be seen if the people elected in the upcoming US elections is ready and willing to make this kind of commitment.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-23-2016 at 10:38 AM..
That's from the end of August 2016 and it's projecting 160 mph running trains entering service in 2021. It's not true high speed rail, but it looks like this is a solid funding commitment which will actually complete the project and give DC/Baltimore even better travel times by rail from downtown to downtown along the corridor. It's basically a steady stream of incremental improvements planned out for DC out until 2040 and it all seems to be making decent headway.
Going back to this post, I just realized with 160 mph trains, that would be about a half hour from NYC to Philly and maybe about 1 and 1/2 hours from NYC to DC on the Acela Express or whatever it's called. That would be really incredible.
Much of Chicago's mass transit works involves renovating and upgrading its current system which is really extensive, but had a lot of issues. The elimination of slow zones (where the tracks aren't in a particularly good state so traincars have to run at slower speeds) has been an ongoing and mostly successful project that's been going on for the last decade. In terms of expansion, there's an in-fill stop on the Metra commuter rail line planned within the city and the recent go-ahead on extending the Red Line further south, but not much else in terms of expansion with firm commitments. Of the plans floated for Chicago, I think Crossrail Chicago is the most sensible of them as it calls for leveraging existing electrified tracks within the city and suburbs to be improved so that it can lay the groundwork for better inter-city (and future HSR) services as well as bring new rapid transit service lines to the city in a very economical way. Chicago probably has the most already built rail infrastructure available to it to quickly improve its transit but state and city finances and political infighting are probably at a nadir right now.
DC/Baltimore:
The biggest thing is phase 2 of the Silver Line out to Washington-Dulles airport. There's an infill station for the Washington Subway planned and a streetcar in DC was recently opened. The Purple Line light rail line to serve DC and its suburbs is to start construction. The Baltimore / DC MARC commuter train formerly had some pretty large plans in terms of massively expanding its reach and to interline several of these new services within Baltimore so that they operate as a rapid transit service within Baltimore City and that was to come with some extensions to Baltimore's mass transit services. Unfortunately, the governor that came in after those plans were made quashed those plans pretty strongly so the biggest thing that happened was more frequent service between DC and Baltimore (including weekend service) along the most heavily trafficked Penn Line. There have also been some setbacks in terms of the current performance of the Washington Subway and its funding.
SF Bay Area:
There's currently a light rail tunnel (named Central Subway) being built to expand the Muni Metro to Chinatown, though this extension is impressively / gallingly expensive for its size (and only light rail to boot). There's also an extension of BART southwards from the East Bay towards San Jose, but it's doing so in pretty small phases with latter phases unfunded and without any firm commitments. Caltrain, the single corridor commuter rail between SF and South Bay, is currently undergoing electrification which is great as it generally comes with lower operational costs in the future and much faster travel times. It's unfortunate that BART was built with the very non-standard and incompatible with Caltrain and most other rail in the US broad gauge which means Caltrain and BART can't create a seamless loop around the Bay which would have probably been an incredible boon for transit in the Bay Area--that probably would have actually given the Bay Area a world class transit system, but instead, the Bay Area will continue to be hobbled by this.
Toronto:
Toronto has the Big Move plan outlined and parts of it are being implemented with much of it leveraging GO Transit commuter rail to become more like a RER / S-Bahn type service that gives rapid transit-like or near rapid transit frequencies in multiple legs of the journey. I believe there were multiple setbacks due to the infighting during the comical reign of Rob Ford as well as lower than expected ridership for the UP Express line. There are a lot of rail initiatives that have varying levels of committed funding in Toronto, but I'm not sure if any right now have made much headway. However, Toronto does have the most comprehensive plan for transit projects overall of the four, so its mass transit network might soon become comparable to or better than that of Chicago and DC/Baltimore if things become less talk and more work.
It's funny that LA, a city not known for mass transit whatsoever, has much more ambitious and shovels already in the ground mass transit expansions than any of these four right now. Then again, it's making up for a lot of lost time.
Anyhow, I'm not a native or resident of any of these four--I'd love to hear from residents/natives about how things are actually going on the ground.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-23-2016 at 11:28 AM..
Going back to this post, I just realized with 160 mph trains, that would be about a half hour from NYC to Philly and maybe about 1 and 1/2 hours from NYC to DC on the Acela Express or whatever it's called. That would be really incredible.
It won't be 160 mph throughout, but yea, it'll definitely be pretty great. Looking forward to it!
In regards to the four cities at hand, the shorter times for this might potentially mean that the DC to Boston trip might actually become competitive. It'd require a lot of work on the NYC to Boston stretch, but given that the trains aren't to be delivered for several more years, maybe it'll work out.
This thread is about the Bay Area. Not all of Cali.
And if Toronto is a "steambath" during the summer months, then so is Chicago, Washington, Philadelphia, Detroit, Montreal, New York, etc... I guess pretty much every large city North American outside of SF is a steambath.
"Among the country's 51 largest cities, San Francisco tops the list for usually having the coldest weather each day in June, July and August. San Francisco's mean summer temperature is barely above 60 degrees Fahrenheit, whereas most major US cities average at least 70 °F (21 °C) during summer." Coolest US Cities in Summer - Current Results
^This is just one of the reasons why I chose to visit SF in September instead July (my original plans) because I was told the September is "hotter" while July is sweater weather. lol. They might as well not call it "summer" in SF if the temperature is only going to stay in the 60s.
Again, give me three months of winter wonderland while also having real hot summers (just like almost every other major North American city), and I'll take it any day of the week.
Yawns. Half of Toronto's international flights are for Canadians fleeing for the Caribbean and Central America durung the winter. Please stop pretending your garish winter season is anything but miserable. I would die.
And then, Toronto summers are a steam bath compared to SF and the Bay Area. We have more sun, an ocean breeze and are an outdoorsmans paradise basically year round.
We hiked 2,500 ft above town yesterday, walking through groves of redwoods on our way up, it was glorious. On one side a view of the wide open Pacific and the other side, a view of the city and bay...gorgeous.
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Kids playing and being sprayed by water hydrants, water gun fights, jogging/biking/rollerblading along the shore in a tank top or no shirt, hot backyard barbecues, ice cream melting before you finish it, ....I'm guessing SF residents don't know too much about that summer lifestyle?
Sounds uncomfortable. No thanks.
We sweat deliberately, not just because we're sitting outside, ick.
160 mph running trains entering service in 2021. It's not true high speed rail
Really? Being shy by only 30MPH? I've more often thought N America as waiting for maglev technology to become more advanced before substantially pursuing HSR. Maglev seems pliable as far as graduating speed enhancements goes. Anyhow, I thought it customary that 'dignataries' first die before having facilities named after them.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
DC also has three mid-sized metros (Richmond, Tidewater region, and Pittsburgh)
Come again (e.g., I've heard of neither 1 of the latter 2)?
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
The three megapolises of the Windsor Corridor, the US Great Lakes/Upper Midwest, and the Northeast
Loose application of this term, plenty of farmland dominates all 3 tracts.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Caltrain, the single corridor commuter rail between SF and South Bay, is currently undergoing electrification
Superb news.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Toronto:
... UP Express line ...
;pfft: The operator's Website claims this service as being the continent's lone dedicated express rail service, yet its ugly trains stop at each of the (2) intermediate stops along the route.
Really? Being shy by only 30MPH? I've more often thought N America as waiting for maglev technology to become more advanced before substantially pursuing HSR. Maglev seems pliable as far as graduating speed enhancements goes. Anyhow, I thought it customary that 'dignataries' first die before having facilities named after them.
Come again (e.g., I've heard of neither 1 of the latter 2)?
Loose application of this term, plenty of farmland dominates all 3 tracts.
Superb news.
;pfft: The operator's Website claims this service as being the continent's lone dedicated express rail service, yet its ugly trains stop at each of the (2) intermediate stops along the route.
Well, the trains they're ordering should be able to get to 186 mph, but the rest of the infrastructure would need to be able to keep up. So maybe actual true high speed rail without maglev. I don't think there's the political will for maglev and it's debatable if it'd be worth it.
There are probably several places you haven't heard of.
Megalopolis isn't a term that has to only encompasses completely dense urban neighborhoods throughout.
Yes, it's a really good thing they're electrifying Caltrain.
I'd think it'd be a pretty bad boondoggle to not have these two intermediate stops given how far out the airport is from downtown. The limited intermediate stops (two over a distance of 23 km) is a good idea. The bad idea was not electrifying the service from the get-go. Electrifying this line (and the Kitchener Line with which it shares trackage), making the pedestrian tunnel to connect to the nearby subway line, and making an in-fill stations will probably make this line have far greater ridership. That and if the service continued out of Union Station to some other direction.
Actually, does Union Station have the ability to do that or is it mostly stub end tracks there? Could the UP Express actually be routed to follow parts of the Lakeshore East line in the future?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-23-2016 at 12:56 PM..
Are you suggesting people spend hours driving every day in the summer to another location to get real summer weather?
Yes you can live in Fremont and have real summer weather, but you won't have all the things (urbanity, food, diversity, culture etc...) that you boast about San Francisco.
The Bay area lets you move your goal posts quite nicely
Style of density just off of the downtown core:
Vancouver:
Toronto:
San Francisco:
#blessed
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