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I can understand having such a high cut off point for various reasons that NYC is it, but to also include San Francisco's downtown and cutting off other American cities is ridiculous. Chicago is the larger powerhouse business district with the more impressive presence, Philadelphia has the better mixed-use and amenities for living downtown, Boston has the better historic vibe and pedestrian orientation, and DC has the better monumental grandeur. I can see someone arguing for SF to be at the head of this pack, but the cut-off point no matter what a reasonable metric would include would put SF pretty close to at least one if not all of these unless the most heavily weighted metric by a massive margin was cost of real estate per square foot.
Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, Charlotte, Detroit, ATL, Dallas, Houston are runner up too
I've probably answered this before, but I guess it depends on what you call downtown. For example, downtown in Manhattan actually means down town. For me, areas like SoHo, West Village, etc are the best downtown in the country. However, if you were to say downtown is actually midtown then I much prefer somewhere like Chicago's downtown to it. Depends on how you define it really...
I would argue that NYC's downtown in a traditional sense is really all of Manhattan South of 96th St
I would argue that NYC's downtown in a traditional sense is really all of Manhattan South of 96th St
And maybe even North Brooklyn
I just can’t disagree more. Nothing about UWS or UES feel like a downtown for me. Maybe it’s becausr I grew up in Manhattan, but those areas feel super residential, to me. If you’re going to include those, Chicago’s downtown would have to extend from South Loop through Lakeview.
Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, Charlotte, Detroit, ATL, Dallas, Houston are runner up too
Of that crowd, Downtown Seattle annihilates the others in every urban stat...resident density, residential construction, transit commute share, tourism, retail, etc. A couple are on similar levels in office space but with a fraction of the construction. (Ok everything but convention center square footage.)
We're the missing link between the Boston/SF type cities and the rest.
I just can’t disagree more. Nothing about UWS or UES feel like a downtown for me. Maybe it’s becausr I grew up in Manhattan, but those areas feel super residential, to me. If you’re going to include those, Chicago’s downtown would have to extend from South Loop through Lakeview.
Super residential is a bit of a stretch I think, there are tons of restaurants, bars, museums, and plenty of office buildings as well. Obviously it's not the same as Midtown, but much of the Upper West and East Side has "downtown" qualities to it. Maybe it's a grey area between "downtown" and "not downtown". At any rate, it's extremely urban.
UES & UWS are like 10x more intense, more mixed-use and more densely-packed with tourist and other non-residential amenities than Lincoln Park and Lakeview. If that's included in DT Chicago then DTNY should stretch from Washington Heights to Prospect Park South and include large chunks of NJ and Queens waterfronts as well.
Heck even in South Loop, just a few blocks from the heart of Chicago's CBD, there are some blocks that are more sleepy than anything within 5 miles of Manhattan.
I just can’t disagree more. Nothing about UWS or UES feel like a downtown for me. Maybe it’s becausr I grew up in Manhattan, but those areas feel super residential, to me. If you’re going to include those, Chicago’s downtown would have to extend from South Loop through Lakeview.
Come on now. If you transport UWS and UES with things like Museum Mile to ANY other city in the country, they would become top downtown areas of those cities, and would definitely be included into "downtown" if they are right next to the current city downtown.
UES & UWS are like 10x more intense, more mixed-use and more densely-packed with tourist and other non-residential amenities than Lincoln Park and Lakeview. If that's included in DT Chicago then DTNY should stretch from Washington Heights to Prospect Park South and include large chunks of NJ and Queens waterfronts as well.
Heck even in South Loop, just a few blocks from the heart of Chicago's CBD, there are some blocks that are more sleepy than anything within 5 miles of Manhattan.
UWS and UES are clearly denser and more “intense” than Lincoln Park or Lakeview, but their function is more residential. Lincoln Park and Lakeview act as major entertainment centers for Chicago. They’re home to some of the city’s most famous restaurants and nightlife districts. The streets are bustling with tourists as well as locals who have come from other parts of the city. Every NYC neighborhood is mixed-use, so it makes sense that neighborhoods as historically affluent as UWS and UES would have commercial offerings and cultural institutions, but they are still very much primarily residential.
UWS and UES are clearly denser and more “intense” than Lincoln Park or Lakeview, but their function is more residential. Lincoln Park and Lakeview act as major entertainment centers for Chicago. They’re home to some of the city’s most famous restaurants and nightlife districts. The streets are bustling with tourists as well as locals who have come from other parts of the city. Every NYC neighborhood is mixed-use, so it makes sense that neighborhoods as historically affluent as UWS and UES would have commercial offerings and cultural institutions, but they are still very much primarily residential.
What you're saying about the UWS and the UES being primarily residential is true, but this is also true for many parts south of 59th street in Manhattan. I think an argument for the inclusion of everything from 59th to 96th is due to the number of notable cultural institutions within these neighborhoods.
For the Upper West Side, the biggest hitters are Lincoln Center and the American Museum of Natural History. For the Upper East Side its museum mile, the Guggenheim, the Met Breuer, and many diplomatic missions. They both also have a high density of transit infrastructure and are adjacent to Midtown and are themselves host to a lot of jobs. There is no shortage of people commuting in or tourists visiting in either neighborhood.
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