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There is no question that NYC has a larger, more impressive, vibrant/dynamic downtown than Chicago. It's sheer size and scope put it on an altogether different plane than Chicago. That said, Chicago's is among an *incredibly* small handful of cities globably (put it this way, I can count them on two hands) that essentially set the standard for what a great downtown is all about. This tells you all you need to know about what a great a downtown NYC has... and is.
There is no question that NYC has a larger, more impressive, vibrant/dynamic downtown than Chicago. It's sheer size and scope put it on an altogether different plane than Chicago. That said, Chicago's is among an *incredibly* small handful of cities globably (put it this way, I can count them on two hands) that essentially set the standard for what a great downtown is all about. This tells you all you need to know about what a great a downtown NYC has... and is.
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Lower Manhattan is actually Downtown NYC Midtown is actually Finance District, Times Square, Grand Central and Broadway.
I was referring to Lower Mahnhattan and Midtown, which, with some breaks in the upper teens and 20s is essentially a constant downtown.
Yea, I see that more or less continuous CBD in New York City as:
- Lower Manhattan: downtown Boston with its winding and narrow streets, the waterfront, the ferries, large financial services base and some very old historic architecture
- the Villages: Center City Philadelphia with a much more human scale and many rowhouses and older apartment buildings though still punctuated with high-rises and skyscrapers and many smaller squares and many narrow but still straight streets
- Midtown Manhattan: Chicago Loop with a prominent grid pattern and many, many skyscrapers and historic architecture that abuts a large preeminent park
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-22-2019 at 01:30 PM..
Yea, I see that more or less continuous CBD in New York City as:
- Lower Manhattan: downtown Boston with its winding and narrow streets, the waterfront, the ferries, large financial services base and some very old historic architecture
- the Villages: Center City Philadelphia with a much more human scale and many rowhouses and older apartment buildings though still punctuated with high-rises and skyscrapers and many smaller squares and many narrow but still straight streets
- Midtown Manhattan: Chicago Loop with a prominent grid pattern and many, many skyscrapers and historic architecture that abuts a large preeminent park
Interesting take and fairly accurate. Lower Manhattan (around Gold St.) always reminds me of Boston around Milk St. Same tighter, wavy lanes. Lots of older architecture. Same with the Philly and Chicago comparisons.
Yea, I see that more or less continuous CBD in New York City as:
- Lower Manhattan: downtown Boston with its winding and narrow streets, the waterfront, the ferries, largge financial services base and some very old historic architecture
- the Villages: Center City Philadelphia with a much more human scale and many rowhouses and older apartment buildings though still punctuated with high-rises and skyscrapers and many smaller squares and many narrow but still straight streets
- Midtown Manhattan: Chicago Loop with a prominent grid pattern and many, many skyscrapers and historic architecture that abuts a large preeminent park
Yeah, I can also see SF's Union Square area in the areas around Broadway between SoHo and Madison Square park (ornate midrise architecture/high energy retail districts). SoMa is also probably the closest to Hudson Yards (for better or worse) when it comes to parking lots turning into tall glass buildings on the edge of the existing urban fabric.
I might note that New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Chicago all have what you might call "second downtowns" (or "second CBDs") or "downtown annexes."
Generally speaking, the planners and geographers do split Manhattan south of 59th Street into two "downtowns" with some more residential districts in between them. Canal Street is more or less the northern border of the southern "downtown," which is the one that's called "downtown" Manhattan; it contains the financial district. SoHo has lots of retail, which may place it in that "downtown" as well.
Greenwich Village, Chelsea, the Lower East Side and "Alphabet City", Murray Hill and <mumble> lie in between the two downtowns. They are omitted from the "downtowns" because they lack large-scale office development.
The offices begin again at 34th Street and extend north to 59th Street and Central Park. This is Midtown Manhattan, the second and now larger downtown.
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Downtown Boston lies to the east and north of Boston Common. It includes the more residential districts of Beacon Hill and the North End.
To the west of the Common and the Public Garden lies the "downtown annex," the Back Bay.
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Of course, everyone knows that Chicago's "downtown" is called the Loop after the elevated rapid transit railroad that rings its center. The Chicago River borders the Loop on its west and north sides. On the opposite bank of the river lies North Michigan Avenue and the adjacent Gold Coast, the "downtown annex" that, like the Back Bay in Boston, houses the toniest shopping district.
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Philadelphia's Center City, as I noted above, consists of the territory that was the Town (City after 1701) of Philadelphia from founding in 1682 until consolidation in 1854: the Delaware on the east, the Schuylkill on the west, Vine Street on the north and South Street on the south.
University City sits across the Schuylkill from downtown. It's home to three universities, two of them next-door neighbors located next to the city's main railroad station. This district has sprouted several high-rise office and residential towers over the last seven years and is now second only to Center City as an employment center (the third-biggest in the region, with the King of Prussia edge city ranking second). A rather ambitious redevelopment plan for the area immediately around 30th Street Station, being led by the smaller of the two universities and the region's largest commercial landlord, will, when complete, make this district a full-blown second downtown.
I might note that New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Chicago all have what you might call "second downtowns" (or "second CBDs") or "downtown annexes."
Generally speaking, the planners and geographers do split Manhattan south of 59th Street into two "downtowns" with some more residential districts in between them. Canal Street is more or less the northern border of the southern "downtown," which is the one that's called "downtown" Manhattan; it contains the financial district. SoHo has lots of retail, which may place it in that "downtown" as well.
Greenwich Village, Chelsea, the Lower East Side and "Alphabet City", Murray Hill and <mumble> lie in between the two downtowns. They are omitted from the "downtowns" because they lack large-scale office development.
The offices begin again at 34th Street and extend north to 59th Street and Central Park. This is Midtown Manhattan, the second and now larger downtown.
________________
Downtown Boston lies to the east and north of Boston Common. It includes the more residential districts of Beacon Hill and the North End.
To the west of the Common and the Public Garden lies the "downtown annex," the Back Bay.
________________
Of course, everyone knows that Chicago's "downtown" is called the Loop after the elevated rapid transit railroad that rings its center. The Chicago River borders the Loop on its west and north sides. On the opposite bank of the river lies North Michigan Avenue and the adjacent Gold Coast, the "downtown annex" that, like the Back Bay in Boston, houses the toniest shopping district.
________________
Philadelphia's Center City, as I noted above, consists of the territory that was the Town (City after 1701) of Philadelphia from founding in 1682 until consolidation in 1854: the Delaware on the east, the Schuylkill on the west, Vine Street on the north and South Street on the south.
University City sits across the Schuylkill from downtown. It's home to three universities, two of them next-door neighbors located next to the city's main railroad station. This district has sprouted several high-rise office and residential towers over the last seven years and is now second only to Center City as an employment center (the third-biggest in the region, with the King of Prussia edge city ranking second). A rather ambitious redevelopment plan for the area immediately around 30th Street Station, being led by the smaller of the two universities and the region's largest commercial landlord, will, when complete, make this district a full-blown second downtown.
Chicago is one city that no one really says anything like has multiple CBDs. The Gold Coast and Old Town are still just seen as far more neighborhoods with a portion of the Gold Coast included as Chicago's .... OFFICIAL one CBD by the city itself.
From Chicago's own city website for all of its city related services.
It does go west to a block west of the expressway. North to only a portion into the Gold Coast. Doesn't go by look or of course it would be more. It doesn't even include the Museum Campus with Soldier Field. Who doesn't conceder that part of downtown?
But as most cities. It may be expanded in the future. Same for Philly into University City. Especially once Schuylkill Yards is more connected. Cut will it really ne a second CBD? Or one Bigger one?
Too much in vibrancy, retail and especially hotels. Developed North of the Loop Chicago.... to be brought into ONE CBD. It was more then just high-rise/skyscraper residential neighborhoods and lofts and never seen really separately a CBD.
Chicago zones pretty intensely where high-rise even are allowed. outside the core areas, it really is just main corridors. Even its Lincoln Yards promoted to Amazon has had to be rezoned from industrial and in this next round before more construction. The Soccer Stadium with a Live-Nation venue was voted down. So that will be redesigned without it. But still never billed as another CBD to develop. Still it's within the Greater Core.
Generally it is fast growing sunbelt cities that boast multiple CBD's. Like a Houston or Atlanta and billed as such with their own skylines.
Chicago is one city that no one really says anything like has multiple CBDs. The Gold Coast and Old Town are still just seen as far more neighborhoods with a portion of the Gold Coast included as Chicago's .... OFFICIAL one CBD by the city itself.
From Chicago's own city website for all of its city related services.
It does go west to a block west of the expressway. North to only a portion into the Gold Coast. Doesn't go by look or of course it would be more. It doesn't even include the Museum Campus with Soldier Field. Who doesn't conceder that part of downtown?
But as most cities. It may be expanded in the future. Same for Philly into University City. Especially once Schuylkill Yards is more connected. Cut will it really ne a second CBD? Or one Bigger one?
Too much in vibrancy, retail and especially hotels. Developed North of the Loop Chicago.... to be brought into ONE CBD. It was more then just high-rise/skyscraper residential neighborhoods and lofts and never seen really separately a CBD.
Chicago zones pretty intensely where high-rise even are allowed. outside the core areas, it really is just main corridors. Even its Lincoln Yards promoted to Amazon has had to be rezoned from industrial and in this next round before more construction. The Soccer Stadium with a Live-Nation venue was voted down. So that will be redesigned without it. But still never billed as another CBD to develop. Still it's within the Greater Core.
Generally it is fast growing sunbelt cities that boast multiple CBD's. Like a Houston or Atlanta and billed as such with their own skylines.
Dave is correct - while technically different neighborhoods, The Loop and River North make up interrupted urban core around the river, so no one from Chicago refers to them as separate downtowns:
Last edited by spaceboyzero; 01-23-2019 at 09:00 AM..
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