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View Poll Results: Which is the most-powerful, culturally-significant, world-class city??
Montréal 17 14.91%
Toronto 20 17.54%
Chicago 77 67.54%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-13-2016, 11:17 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,414,815 times
Reputation: 638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
I think the problem with Chicago in the United States market is that there is nothing it can do that other cities don't already do better.

You want finance? That's NYC.Chicago has five major financial exchanges, including the Chicago Stock Exchange (CHX), the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE), the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME), the Chicago Board of Trade (CBOT), and NYSE Arca. While the city of Chicago houses most of the major brokerage firms, many insurance companies are in the city or suburbs, such as Allstate Corporation

You want media and culture? That's Los Angeles.Chicago has always been a major media and culture market.think how many iconic movies about American life to this day feature Chicago as a backdrop,Ferris Buellers Day Off is one that comes to mind.

You want tech? That's SF and Seattle.According to all the VC in Chicago,its not doing bad either.

You want energy? That's Houston. Yes its also traded through the CME

You want politics? That's DC.You mean where the cureent President of the U.S. is from and the current mayor was the former Cheirf of Staff?

You want manufacturing? That's Detroit.[COLOR="red"]Um actually they make Airplanes like Boeing and just like in Toronto they have car manufacturing as well here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Assembly
Lets not forget that Motorolla is also headquaryered in Chicago.What electronic company is headquartered in Toronto?[/color]


You want tourism? That's Miami. No Chicago guest quite a but of tourism as does Orlando,L.A.,SF,NYC,,DC,La Vegas and even smaller cities like Savannah.In fact Chicago ranks just behind SF and ahead of Orlando D.C.,Boston,and Ft.Lauderdale.Miami btw does not get anywhere near NYC gets each year.http://travel.trade.gov/outreachpage...ion_Report.pdf

Chicago's forte used to be the railroads and industrial processing, and with those gone it has kind of lost its purpose in the United States.
LOL.Chicago has had the second busiest airport in the world behind Atlanta;s Hartsfield-Jackson for many years.Who needs to be first in "railroads" any more?This isnt 1840;s.Did you forget about Ohare and Midway?Chicago is a major logistical hubs that is VITAL to the U.S. economy.


Before the Chicago fanboys attack me, this is just an observation and could very well be ignorant. Feel free to provide insight.
Well its ignorant for sure but you knew that as all this stuff has been said before.You choose to ignore it.Chicago is like a smaller version of NYC that some have tried to wrongly attribute that to Toronto.Chicago really does have the economic power and infrastruction to come close to NYC than any other city can get.

 
Old 11-13-2016, 11:21 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
987 posts, read 1,303,601 times
Reputation: 1445
Everyone repeat after me............ "Chicago is not declining!"

Chicago is not, nor has it ever declined in population or economic growth. The issue is not whether Chicago is growing but rather that other cities have been growing much faster. Chicago is a very important US city and always will be but it's relative importance has certainly declined significantly.

Of all other US cities Chicago is still probably the 3rd most important city in the US and {though debatable} in NA. The issue and test for Chicago is to try to maintain that stature going forward and not lose that important edge. Recognition counts. If current trends continue then Chicago will find itself amongst many equals of SF-SJ/Dall-FW/Houston/Toronto/Wash-Balt.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 09:01 AM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,149,397 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by UScityUrbanCores View Post

You and one other certainly Turned the thread to a battle by posting ALL negatives you could find on a internet search on Chicago's issues. Others merely DEFEND with recent Stats, Charts, and Links. But you kept the negative Anti-Chicago rhetoric coming. Your out is its freely in the news and on the internet. But you do realize you are really taking it to extreme in all these post that keep coming by you.

**But since you say you visit annually more then once. Especially if in the summer? What exactly is ALL THE DECLINES You personally saw and if you saw.
  1. no new construction around like infill and new skyscrapers especially in the cities core?
  2. Failing infrastructure in numerous ways you can specify?
  3. a totally inadequate and antiquated transit system, elevated trains to buses
  4. expressways crumbling?
  5. unclean streets in neighborhoods or downtown?
  6. see closed businesses in numerous areas you visited?
  7. no nightlife/restaurant scene at least comparable to Toronto or the other major US cities?
  8. did you drive to or fly into the city?
  9. take the elevated/subway from the airport or drive to the destination, downtown or staying with someone?
We know the Chicago has no Trams or Trolley system. Its propane run buses with no fumes. I'm personally not fond of seeing over-head trolley wires. See a lot of that in Philly.
**But Tell us your firsthand impressions on the city. Let's get off this negative Stats and Links posting. You know it is infuriating and over-done already by two of you. Tell us if,
  1. you ventured into some neighborhoods?
  2. was it mainly downtown or other areas?
  3. did you venture into gentrified areas? Or the bungalow-belt as 1/3 of the city or areas south in decline?
  4. was it a few days or just for business and back home?
Though many areas look pretty good even with lost housing in the southern areas. Most blight was removed, though these areas generally lack retail and the gangland crime is high. American big cities will have these areas.

No Chicago defender denied these issues. Sorry but to continually post all them post so negative . It's A bit overboard to say the least.
I've read how some Torontonians don't appreciate any negatives or things in the news on perceptions mentioned and links used. Also reality of all that glitters is not just glass High-rises and Skyscrapers (rather then use gold). Especially posted in the Toronto forum too, even by other locals in critique of Toronto. Most times the staunch Toronto homers, just discount and far lessen any of them.

It's many staunch Toronto homers. Who promote Toronto as glittering like gold literally and rising fast OVER AMERICAN CITIES. But really time to compare to Asian cities as Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Sydney and Jakarta? For amount of high-rise living.

Makes me wonder? What exactly is This "lofty place" Chicago has and is declining from? NYC surpassed it a century ago and LA metro population many decades ago already too.


We surely know our Sunbelt and large Costal cities have more in some Stats.

One surely can say US sunbelt cities like Houston and Atlanta can boast a rising population and GDP. But most C-D posters clearly showed in a thread of Houston surpassing Chicago in a few years to decade. Clearly denoted areas Chicago IS NOT IN DECLINE IN and a built environment Houston and Downtown are perhaps decades away if ever. Chicago overcame much adversity in its history I addressed already. Al Capone era to 60s70s radical racial change and blight. No one can take the history of American Architecture in its built environment and its earliest to newest skyscrapers show.

It is really the post after post with Links off the internet 2 Torontonians used to lessen Chicago with declines to no way out of going down a sewer. You need 2 hands of fingers+ to count them post after post of demeaning that were far from just trying to show all that glitters is not gold in Chi-Town. Honestly it really became way over the top. Some of us felt provoked to say what we shouldn't have.

As always. Great Post and my sentiments also. Still my favorite Big city I visit yearly. We surely know all is not Gold glittering.

No one is denying this to Toronto. No Racial issues as the States and Chicago. You just deny Chicago can have some virtues to speak of yet. Others address or give CURRENT STATS of.

It is like again what you guys did in a Toronto vs. San Francisco thread. Full Frontal, take no prisoners, go for their jugular like here.

They all have a piece of the pie. What SF metro stands out on with Silicone Valley. LA can't touch. But still not about population rise, now is it?
Can we not lump every Torontonian into one bucket? I live in Toronto and think Chicago is a wonderful city to live and visit, and it's certainly not in decline. The said poster who kept bashing Toronto is one man, and in no way represents how most Torontonians think or feel about our sister city
 
Old 11-14-2016, 01:11 PM
 
153 posts, read 162,536 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Can we not lump every Torontonian into one bucket?
I live in Toronto and think Chicago is a wonderful city to live and visit, and it's certainly not in decline. The said poster who kept bashing Toronto is one man, and in no way represents how most Torontonians think or feel about our sister city
Canada - Chicago Ties Canada top investor in Chicago with 200 Canadian based companies at 450 Chicagoland locations (2015)

Canada - Chicago Ties Toronto a sister-city with Chicago since 1991. Chicago has 28 total.

Still the premise of this thread (previously)has gone to how Toronto beats and surpasses Chicago on the Toronto corner of the boxing ring. With the Toronto corner throwing all the blows (they kept them key to the fight for stature and superiority). In the Chicago corner of the ring, a needing to be on the defensive by trying to block and stepping around the attempted knockouts. Thought by a couple posters. To be strong blows to a knockout. (with CONSTANT CLAIMS of Chicago in all declines and a has-been city dropping in stature) but with Toronto already a much better city, more high-rises far over Chicago, with Chicago having only one Core and therefore superior overall with all they posted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
Yes what I see is the most illogical behavior I have ever seen on CD.In the real world no one that knows anything about anything would say Chicago is in decline as if it was Detroit.Lets be clear thats exatcly what the poster was eluding too.

Number of cranes at work in Chicago hits 8-year high - Chicago Tribune
Yes Chicago is far from declining. In a boom period now but a built out city already in city boundaries. It continues to get more proposed in the pipeline to approved to beginconstruction. Houston's core is way down in new construction from cheaper oil. But its neighborhoods still are getting good infill and suburbs growing. Toronto continues its international investment despite a drop in Canada's oil revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintainschaos View Post
LA and Chicago areas are the two largest manufacturing hubs in the U.S. (not Detroit). Chicago is the center of worldwide agricultural trading. Chicago is still the leading railroad hub of the U.S. But of course none of this is germane to the original post.
Also true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
Well its ignorant for sure but you knew that as all this stuff has been said before. You choose to ignore it. Chicago is like a smaller version of NYC that some have tried to wrongly attribute that to Toronto. Chicago really does have the economic power and infrastructure to come close to NYC than any other city can get.
True but NYC is just such a beast. But it was only 40 - 50 years ago. Chicago had a much smaller core to be seen as a smaller version of NYC then and with a much much lower population living in its core? But it underwent a Manhattanizing, that transformed a new awesome core of Commerce and being highly Residential today. If one thing that improved in NYC impressions of Chi-Town? It's in how Chicago is seen today by the elite of NYC and business? It is not being seen as merely Flyover anymore by most.

Some who visit often between the 2 see Chicago as a extension of NYC like a Borough? (neither good or bad to me, but still much better then Flyover) Philly gets that a lot especially in being another Borough of NYC. I would think Toronto and NYC have many connections today too. Closer to each other in distance and to drive between or train. But remain different Countries. But sometimes one could see NYC as its own Country itself and the World's city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
Everyone repeat after me............ "Chicago is not declining!"
Chicago is not, nor has it ever declined in population or economic growth. The issue is not whether Chicago is growing but rather that other cities have been growing much faster. Chicago is a very important US city and always will be but it's relative importance has certainly declined significantly.

Of all other US cities Chicago is still probably the 3rd most important city in the US and {though debatable} in NA. The issue and test for Chicago is to try to maintain that stature going forward and not lose that important edge. Recognition counts. If current trends continue then Chicago will find itself amongst many equals of SF-SJ/Dall-FW/Houston/Toronto/Wash-Balt.
Great civil, respectable post. Yes, other US cities US sunbelt and Pacific Northwest, along with those you mention. Are coming to there own too. In growth that has increase stature by Big business there that evolved. Eventually Chicagoland may add Milwaukee? But still their cores are 90 miles apart. With suburbs touching but the commuting between the 2 cities are not there. That is what will be what is necessary to be 1 MSA like Baltimore/ DC 40 miles apart.

Toronto has surely come to its own. The premier city of Canada. But surely Montréal is noteworthy too. But when dealing vs. US cities. Former northern US Rust-belt cities will have its side of declines sadly split many times racially by neighborhoods. Then you have our ring sunbelt cities with totally different built environment and not trying to be high-rise living cities.

Chicago still maintains a awesome skyline that still has the best of its oldest early skyscrapers gems not really hidden by most newer ones from each decade of the late 19th century on. That is its edge over newer evolving cities too. Shown Especially along Its main core street of Michigan Ave. where old and newer mix in different angles.
The 25 most beautiful streets in the world.

Two ground level skyline views.
Attached Thumbnails
Toronto vs Chicago vs (gulp) Montréal....-chicago-skyline-north-lake-michigan_.jpg   Toronto vs Chicago vs (gulp) Montréal....-chicago-skyline-south-mccormick-place..jpg  

Last edited by UScityUrbanCores; 11-14-2016 at 02:01 PM..
 
Old 11-14-2016, 05:54 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,414,815 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by UScityUrbanCores View Post
Canada - Chicago Ties Canada top investor in Chicago with 200 Canadian based companies at 450 Chicagoland locations (2015)

Canada - Chicago Ties Toronto a sister-city with Chicago since 1991. Chicago has 28 total.

Still the premise of this thread (previously)has gone to how Toronto beats and surpasses Chicago on the Toronto corner of the boxing ring. With the Toronto corner throwing all the blows (they kept them key to the fight for stature and superiority). In the Chicago corner of the ring, a needing to be on the defensive by trying to block and stepping around the attempted knockouts. Thought by a couple posters. To be strong blows to a knockout. (with CONSTANT CLAIMS of Chicago in all declines and a has-been city dropping in stature) but with Toronto already a much better city, more high-rises far over Chicago, with Chicago having only one Core and therefore superior overall with all they posted?

Yes Chicago is far from declining. In a boom period now but a built out city already in city boundaries. It continues to get more proposed in the pipeline to approved to beginconstruction. Houston's core is way down in new construction from cheaper oil. But its neighborhoods still are getting good infill and suburbs growing. Toronto continues its international investment despite a drop in Canada's oil revenue.


Also true.

True but NYC is just such a beast. But it was only 40 - 50 years ago. Chicago had a much smaller core to be seen as a smaller version of NYC then and with a much much lower population living in its core? But it underwent a Manhattanizing, that transformed a new awesome core of Commerce and being highly Residential today. If one thing that improved in NYC impressions of Chi-Town? It's in how Chicago is seen today by the elite of NYC and business? It is not being seen as merely Flyover anymore by most.

Some who visit often between the 2 see Chicago as a extension of NYC like a Borough? (neither good or bad to me, but still much better then Flyover) Philly gets that a lot especially in being another Borough of NYC. I would think Toronto and NYC have many connections today too. Closer to each other in distance and to drive between or train. But remain different Countries. But sometimes one could see NYC as its own Country itself and the World's city.

Great civil, respectable post. Yes, other US cities US sunbelt and Pacific Northwest, along with those you mention. Are coming to there own too. In growth that has increase stature by Big business there that evolved. Eventually Chicagoland may add Milwaukee? But still their cores are 90 miles apart. With suburbs touching but the commuting between the 2 cities are not there. That is what will be what is necessary to be 1 MSA like Baltimore/ DC 40 miles apart.

Toronto has surely come to its own. The premier city of Canada. But surely Montréal is noteworthy too. But when dealing vs. US cities. Former northern US Rust-belt cities will have its side of declines sadly split many times racially by neighborhoods. Then you have our ring sunbelt cities with totally different built environment and not trying to be high-rise living cities.

Chicago still maintains a awesome skyline that still has the best of its oldest early skyscrapers gems not really hidden by most newer ones from each decade of the late 19th century on. That is its edge over newer evolving cities too. Shown Especially along Its main core street of Michigan Ave. where old and newer mix in different angles.
The 25 most beautiful streets in the world.

Two ground level skyline views.

The views that you get driving down Lakeshore Dr or riding in a water taxi is stunning. Im sorry Toronto is a lovely city but Chicago is majestic.The classical structures and statues are everywhere.

When you are watching a movie,yu can tell its Chicago because of the backdrop,the food culture.
Iva seen several movies filmed in Toronto but they simply dont showcase the city that well on film.



https://assets.dnainfo.com/generated...jpg/larger.jpg

Im not from Chicago and have never lived there but I would live in Chicago with all its crime over Toronto ANY DAY BUT I do understand why some would prefer Toronto.That reason I think would mainly be the crime because the food,entertainment ,cultural and historical landmarks blow Toronto out f the water.

Chicago has such a colorful history that makes it interesting on a level Toronto just will never have. Even if it does outgrow Chicago like Houston eventually will.
At least Houston has a more interesting history even if its downtown is boring but thats where Toronto gives Chicago and any city in N.America except NYC a ride for its money.

Yes I am aware how colossal NYC is but Chicago if any city deserve the title of "mini-NYC" it would be Chicago/I mean FIVE(5) Stock Exchanges?

And to the poster that listed that ridiculous list of construction projects(MJun),Chicago didd much of what Toronto has done and probably has REDONE it over again since Toronto just now doing it as its booming NOW.
Thats what these TDot posters need to realize is that Chicago has boomed and busted for years just like NYC.THAT is WHY its ICONIC!! Toronto does not have a storied history of gangsters,great fires,civil rights,political corruption,innovation and world historical events like Chicago.
This is why if you ask people around the world anything about either of these cities for Chicago they may say Barack Obama,Oprah,Mag Mile,Sears Building etc. Toronto usually nothing except that its in Canada,If they are young,MAYBE Drake.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 06:22 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,149,397 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
The views that you get driving down Lakeshore Dr or riding in a water taxi is stunning. Im sorry Toronto is a lovely city but Chicago is majestic.The classical structures and statues are everywhere.

Im not from Chicago and have never lived there but I would live in Chicago with all its crime over Toronto ANY DAY BUT I do understand why some would prefer Toronto.That reason I think would mainly be the crime because the food,entertainment ,cultural and historical landmarks blow Toronto out f the water.
Yes, blow out of the water. Culture and historic landmarks yes. Food and entertainment? It's a toss up. Toronto's diverse and extremely international food scene easily compares to that of Chicago.

As for skyline, I can say that the view driving in from Gardiner Express coming into downtown Toronto can be equally impressive and stunning. I think we can all agree that both cities have some of the best highrise skylines in North America:

Waterfront LRT line:


University of Toronto, University Avenue:
 
Old 11-14-2016, 07:48 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,414,815 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Yes, blow out of the water. Culture and historic landmarks yes. Food and entertainment? It's a toss up. Toronto's diverse and extremely international food scene easily compares to that of Chicago.

As for skyline, I can say that the view driving in from Gardiner Express coming into downtown Toronto can be equally impressive and stunning. I think we can all agree that both cities have some of the best highrise skylines in North America:

Waterfront LRT line:


University of Toronto, University Avenue:
Chicago has its own style of food from hot dogs,Chicago Deep Dish and sauseges that even here down South where I live there are restaurants that serve "Chicago style"you name it everywhere or in the grocery store.
Even in Montreal I never saw anything called "Toronto Style".
I know Toronto does have somethings but its local only.

All major cities nowadays has an international food scene thats diverse.When I go travel I remember the most that made that city different from other cities.The local cusuine.
So while it may compare,there nothing that stands out that other major cities dont have.
Just have "more" or being "the most" does not make it special or unique.For that matter good or better.

Ill take the food in Houston over Toronto anyday. TexMex is the best there but can be found everywhere.

Yes Toronto has impressive skyline due to its size but its not inspiring like Chicago's.But its not the skyline that stands out to me.Its the street level view of Chicago that stands out.

Toronto's skyline is like Houston.Just more.The buildings are so bland but massively tall.







Where can you find such beautiful grandiose statues like this one I love in Jackson Park also in Toronto?and yes I know Toronto has some statues and lots of public art but the classical stuff is timeless and not found in abundance like it is in Chicago.
The Republic


I mean who in the world does not see this and instantly know where it is?

Last edited by Othello Is Here; 11-14-2016 at 08:18 PM..
 
Old 11-14-2016, 08:47 PM
 
615 posts, read 593,495 times
Reputation: 237
Toronto's skyline is nothing like Houston's, the bulk of Toronto's towers are residential, it is unlike any other city in North America outside of New York in that regard (except for maybe Miami and Vancouver).

What part of Houston looks like this?



Last edited by Mr. Burns; 11-14-2016 at 08:56 PM..
 
Old 11-14-2016, 08:47 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 2,697,133 times
Reputation: 574
LOL. And my posts were called "vendettas" when I presented information about Chicago's in-your-face issues ranging from high crime, corruption, murders, debt, credit rating, population loss and public transit funding compared to Toronto.... but Othello is posting pictures of random statues saying Toronto doesn't have statues, Toronto doesn't have this, Toronto doesn't have that.

Have you not heard of The Princes Gates for example? Maybe you can look up some Toronto pics. I'd post some but I guess I would have a "vendetta" for posting pics for a city that I already said I visit annually (and have family in). lol.

And then to say Toronto (who has a much bigger skyline than Houston with buildings designed by some of the best architect in the world) has a skyline "bland like Houston" (a city that is about to pass Chicago in population soon...just like Toronto did in 2013).

Question for Othello: Are you leaving or are you staying? I can see why Chicago and the state of Illinois continues to lose population and decline after someone pointed out the 'staying or leaving' thread to me recently.
 
Old 11-14-2016, 08:52 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 2,697,133 times
Reputation: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
Toronto's skyline is nothing like Houston's, the bulk of Toronto's towers are residential, it is unlike any other city in North America outside of New York in that regard.

What part of Houston looks like this?
Agreed. Excluding NYC, there isn't a city that does downtown urban dense living better than Toronto in USA/Canada. Chicago comes close though, but is stille behind.
Especially with the dozens of high rises being built in downtown Toronto alone and what is to come in the next few years, the gap will widen significantly.

Toronto won't be passed in population by Houston any time soon. Chicago on the other hand...
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