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View Poll Results: Which is the most-powerful, culturally-significant, world-class city??
Montréal 17 14.91%
Toronto 20 17.54%
Chicago 77 67.54%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 11-17-2016, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,759 posts, read 37,665,557 times
Reputation: 11527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
.The ONLY reason people mainly go there is the economy is good.Fifteen years ago,no one was going to Toronto.
I wouldn't say that's true. Toronto has been drawing tons of new residents for quite some time. Decades.

 
Old 11-17-2016, 04:08 PM
 
615 posts, read 593,878 times
Reputation: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
Well thats what you see buts it alone is enough.
Cities that have no real history or culture of their own better be a financial economic powerhouse city like Houstpn or or an entertainment capital(Las Vegas,Orlando).Which do you think Toronto is?
then again Houston has a history and idenity. Toronto does not.
Its the largest North American City that does not.The ONLY reason people mainly go there is the economy is good.Fifteen years ago,no one was going to Toronto.

Why do you think people go to NYC,Paris,London etc.?HISTORY and CUlTURE go hand and hand.

No matter how much :decline" Chicago has or does not have,Toronto will ALWAYS be in its shadow.
Funny how many topics centered around Chicago in the Toronto forum but not ONE talking about Toronto.Pull up Chicago in the search for Toronto its 2 threads currently going on about Chicago and toronto

You guys are fixated on Chicago because you know you dont have what it has.I get it.Too bad you dont.

I dont even know why Im bothering.
The poll says it all.Its a blow out
You're contradicting yourself.

Quote:
Why do you think people go to NYC,Paris,London etc.?HISTORY and CUlTURE go hand and hand.
Yet Chicago allegedly has this, but people are not going there, be they international tourists or to be residents. NYC has more culture and history than Chicago, people go there instead.

People are going to Toronto in droves, but it doesn't have much history (though it has plenty of culture).

People are going to Toronto because it's a thriving and booming city that promises to be among North America and the world's top cities with major changes in the next 5-10 years.

They are not going to Chicago because Chicago's best days are behind it. It is not a boom town or a future powerhouse city. NYC and Los Angeles loom far above it, and Houston and SF are nipping at its heals.
 
Old 11-17-2016, 04:09 PM
 
1,669 posts, read 4,224,701 times
Reputation: 977
^^ Yeah, the Greater Toronto Area has been growing in the 100,000 range per year for the last 30 years.

By the way, Toronto has plenty of history (223 years worth), I have no idea why anyone would think that it didn't.

Here's a good place to start for anyone interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toronto
 
Old 11-17-2016, 04:48 PM
 
3,733 posts, read 2,845,551 times
Reputation: 4903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
^^ Yeah, the Greater Toronto Area has been growing in the 100,000 range per year for the last 30 years.

By the way, Toronto has plenty of history (223 years worth), I have no idea why anyone would think that it didn't.

Here's a good place to start for anyone interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toronto
My guess is, unless you're from Toronto, not many responders to this poll, care that much. Clearly, Chicago has won. When can we give it up?
 
Old 11-17-2016, 06:02 PM
 
969 posts, read 2,059,273 times
Reputation: 1567
You guys need to post with larger fonts and heavier bold, otherwise... But I tallied up the rounds and TO wins by TKO.
 
Old 11-17-2016, 06:13 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,150,623 times
Reputation: 2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post

All that arguing and you FINALLY get where im at.

This was one of my first post where I mentioned this exact same thing and people got on me.
I was not allowed to elaborate I just got slowly attacked.
Problem with discussing Toronto with Toronto people is that they see all the incredible changes happening at breakneck speed in their city so even though the city has come a long way fast and changed so much,they miss the things that people who visit see right away.

Yes Toronto skyline growth is impressive but the street level aesthetic is not attractive overall.Its pragmatic and thats it.
Great cities of the world like Paris has the Champs,London Picadilly Circus orr Traflagar Square,NYC Times Square,Chicago Mag Mile etc.
Toronto has very little in grand areas where walking is more that just to get to where you are going but an experience in feeling you are in a grand place.Where you have a sense that something big has or will happen here.
I suppose you are right maybe "cathing up" is not the best word but Toronto is not an established city in the sense that Chicago is.Chicago is almost as established as NYC,London,or Paris.Im not saying it is but if someone made that argument ,it would be not so easy to dismiss like it would for Toronto.

I just want people from Toronto to realize that being"the most diverse" is NOT and ideninity.So yes it does lack and idenity but people in Toronto dont want to believe this.
We have talked about food,history and culture that people can identify Chicago with even outside of Chicago and the U.S.
To date nothing from Toronto posters in over 40 pages of this thread.

As long as the culture and history of place still makes its relevant,it does not matter of it was 80 years when a city was in its hey day as there is a time in its history it becomes iconic and Chicago has passed that point so therefore Toronto ,now and the near future needs to round out its edges refine itself as Chicago is.

There are 17 Billionaires that call Chicago home.Oprah is not one.There are 6 billionaires in Toronto.Cities with that many billionaires usually have a lot of old money.The history that afforded these people such great wealth goes with the history of the city.Same is true for Toronto or any other city but again its the amount.
Chicago to this day is in the stop 5 cities of America in number of fastest growing companies.More than the booming cities of Houston,Dallas and many others.

Its also high in construction projects:
Here is more evidence of Chicago doing well.
https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/201...-surging-2016/

Residential Construction Spending July 2016:
1. New York - $1.347 billion (YOY change: -54%)
2. Dallas - $914 million (YOY change: -3%)
3. Chicago - $897 million (YOY change: 133%)
4. Miami - $854 million (YOY change: -18%)
5. Houston - $719 million (YOY change: -27%)
6. Atlanta - $561 million (YOY change: -27%)
7. Los Angeles - $353 million (YOY change: -62%)
8. Seattle - $343 million (YOY change: -34%)
9. Boston - $235 million (YOY change: -62%)
10. San Francisco - $193 million (YOY change: -64%)

Overall Construction Spending July 2016:
1. New York: $11.820 billion (YOY change: -29%)
2. Dallas: $6.775 billion (YOY change: 2%)
3. Houston: $5.352 billion (YOY change: -16%)
4. Los Angeles: $4.678 (YOY change: 10%)
5. Atlanta: $4.266 billion (YOY change: 7%)
6. Chicago: $4.224 billion (YOY change: 66%)
7. Miami: $4.218 billion (YOY change: 1%)
8. Boston: $2.786 billion (YOY change: 9%)
9. Seattle: $2.730 billion (YOY change: -11%)
10. San Francisco: $2.345 billion (YOY change: 14%)
https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/201...-surging-2016/
FYI, not everyone reads everyone of your posts
 
Old 11-17-2016, 08:13 PM
 
153 posts, read 162,647 times
Reputation: 102
At least NOTE THE STATS ABOVE of "Othello's"

***MY REPLYS IN ((( BLUE))) ***
No,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
Your entire argument basically boils down to "Chicago has more history"he SAID FAR MORE THEN just History. But history NO ONE CAN TAKE AWAY OR LESSEN. Tell EUROPEANS their centuries of Architecture and examples of eras, that are NEVER REPLACEABLE. THAT IT'S ALL JUST HISTORY? As if NOW TRUMPS ALL ELSE?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
This is obviously true, but it is just that - history.The architecture, the "grand spaces", the food, the movies etc... are history. They are based on accomplishments and relevance from decades in the past.

TRUE. (((MY God HE'S GOT IT.))) Thanks for recognizing Chicago had designed GREAT ARCHITECTURE and "Grand Spaces" as being A ACCOMPLISHMENT. Also along with NEW CONSTRUCTION RESTORATION AND PRESEVATION OF ITS PAST ACCOMPLISMENTS and BLENDING IT INTO A NEW PREMIER CORE. With Gentrification preserving its oldest urban neighborhoods, Young Professionals desire today.

Toronto is nor trying to play "catch up" to Chicago's history.
He did NOT say NEVER. But you CAN'T MAKE UP HSTORY. JUST CREATE YOUR OWN As those others who have MORE HISTORY we lean from and create more. Population growth and NEW. Can't replace A PAST ACCOMPLISMENT OF OTHERS.

That's impossible. Where is Chicago today and where is it going? It's in decline. It is losing influence and power to other cities in the US, and is lowing population and residents to other cities in the USA. These are simple facts.
  • Oldest neighborhoods, and gaining New Infill.
  • GIVING STATISTICS that note CHICAGO'S CONSTRUCTION NUMBERS.
  • SHOWS INVIGORATING A CITY CORE OUTWARD.
  • New projects other areas of the city
  • Other points I noted in blight removed and Failed NOTORIOUS housing projects removed.
****THESE ARE SIMPLE FACTS TOO. ****

All is not Wonderful and not without areas of SOME PARTS of the city and CLASSES ARE SEEMINGLY LEFT BEHIND BUT THE OTHER AREAS. This is true.

The US as a WHOLE IS even having a decline in aspects of even its middle-class. But OUR OLDER major cities have seen INCREASES IN EDUCATED PROFESSIONALS MOVING INTO ITS CORES. Chicago is surely among them. ITS DOWNTOWN NOW HOUSES 200,000+ live-in residents. Despite loosing lower to some middle-class African-Americans to others, especially in other areas (neighborhoods south) gentrification did not reach nor rising incomes in less educated, poorer and smaller families. Public school issues have had some move to areas with better school stats. Even to just the suburbs.

Chicago is not increasing the gap with other US cities or Toronto. The gap is shrinking.
As I discussed before NOT READ apparently. US NORTHERN cities. Devastated in a couple previous decades I discussed. Toronto has NO other RISING CITIES To be RISING Into their OWN STAGES OF COMING OF AGE THEMSELVES.

PLEASE NOTE "Othello's CHART of CONSTRUCTION AMOUNTS.
If other cities as you INFERRED BEFORE. Have their growth numbers, NOTmostly in its downtown and Core as Chicago you said?

Then if CHICAGO'S is mostly downtown regions? THEN ITS DOWNTOWN IS REALLY BOOMING over even Sunbelt rising and large population growths?

Chicago to this day is in the stop 5 cities of America in number of fastest growing companies. More than the booming cities of Houston,Dallas and many others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Othello Is Here View Post
Its also high in construction projects:
Here is more evidence of Chicago doing well.
https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/201...-surging-2016/

Residential Construction Spending July 2016:
1. New York - $1.347 billion (YOY change: -54%)
2. Dallas - $914 million (YOY change: -3%)
3. Chicago - $897 million (YOY change: 133%)
4. Miami - $854 million (YOY change: -18%)
5. Houston - $719 million (YOY change: -27%)
6. Atlanta - $561 million (YOY change: -27%)
7. Los Angeles - $353 million (YOY change: -62%)
8. Seattle - $343 million (YOY change: -34%)
9. Boston - $235 million (YOY change: -62%)
10. San Francisco - $193 million (YOY change: -64%)

Overall Construction Spending July 2016:
1. New York: $11.820 billion (YOY change: -29%)
2. Dallas: $6.775 billion (YOY change: 2%)
3. Houston: $5.352 billion (YOY change: -16%)
4. Los Angeles: $4.678 (YOY change: 10%)
5. Atlanta: $4.266 billion (YOY change: 7%)
6. Chicago: $4.224 billion (YOY change: 66%)
7. Miami: $4.218 billion (YOY change: 1%)
8. Boston: $2.786 billion (YOY change: 9%)
9. Seattle: $2.730 billion (YOY change: -11%)
10. San Francisco: $2.345 billion (YOY change: 14%)

https://chicagoagentmagazine.com/201...-surging-2016/
Another great post civil, yet right to the point. Without mocking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
FYI, not everyone reads everyone of your posts

((((NOTEWORTHY GROWTH STATS FOR CHICAGO above)))).
THIS IS THE PROBLEM reading one part, running with that as it gets MISCONSTRUED.

READ STATISTICS ABOVE and talk to your fellow Torontonians on. Not merely population. The city is in RESTORATION MODE and Changing DEMOGRAPHICS to a:
  • HIGHER-EDUCATED Class of less children
  • YOUNG URBAN PROFESSIONALS GROWTH. Core outward especially.
  • Also into TECH and other areas past being a RUST-BELT city.
  • The USA has other cities in GROWTH MODE IN SOUTHERN and COASTAL Cities and Construction levels.
  • SUBURBANITES who move back to the city after CHILDREN ARE RAISED. Wanting a URBAN LIVING EXPERIENCE LESS CAR ECCENTRIC in especially skyscraper living of no more grass to cut ECT.

Last edited by UScityUrbanCores; 11-17-2016 at 08:23 PM..
 
Old 11-17-2016, 09:53 PM
 
1,122 posts, read 911,787 times
Reputation: 660
Othello,
If you add the construction within 10 miles of Copley Square (Boston), in it's non-incorporated core neighborhoods, such as Cambridge, Somerville, Everett, etc, the statistics rise either to, or slightly above the Chicago numbers. Cambridge is exploding. Check out the construction project the Fed.gov just gave to MIT (that's just 1 mile from the Trinity Church). Not everything quacks like a skyscraper. True, we're only going to rise above 400' about 25 times in the cycle. Our massive comes mostly in the form of 6, 10, 20, and 30 stories because of FAA and shadow laws over sacred historical sites, national parks and green spaces.
The truth is out there.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...38N/story.html
 
Old 11-17-2016, 11:48 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,415,645 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by odurandina View Post
Othello,
If you add the construction within 10 miles of Copley Square (Boston), in it's non-incorporated core neighborhoods, such as Cambridge, Somerville, Everett, etc, the statistics rise either to, or slightly above the Chicago numbers. Cambridge is exploding. Check out the construction project the Fed.gov just gave to MIT (that's just 1 mile from the Trinity Church). Not everything quacks like a skyscraper. True, we're only going to rise above 400' about 25 times in the cycle. Our massive comes mostly in the form of 6, 10, 20, and 30 stories because of FAA and shadow laws over sacred historical sites, national parks and green spaces.
The truth is out there.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...38N/story.html
Ok.But what does Boston have to do with Chicago?Atlanta is constructing more than Boston from its downtown to exurbs by far too.So not sure the relevance as thisthread does not involve those cities.
These are numbers that came out of a real estate maggazine in another thread
 
Old 11-18-2016, 12:13 AM
 
1,462 posts, read 1,415,645 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticman View Post
^^ Yeah, the Greater Toronto Area has been growing in the 100,000 range per year for the last 30 years.

By the way, Toronto has plenty of history (223 years worth), I have no idea why anyone would think that it didn't.

Here's a good place to start for anyone interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toronto
Well no one thinks that but hisory is only relevant to who is paying attention

People never say that about Montreal or Quebec City,
And they definitely never say it about Chicago
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