Chicago v Charleston v Austin v Denver (living, best, cost)
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Hey everyone,
Looking on advice on the above cities for an early 30s single white (but foreign, with a "useful" accent) male. I'll be working a remote tech job so the salary will the same wherever (though of course the taxes won't).
Moving on from Seattle, where while I liked the proximity to the mountains and all the water, I didn't like the rain, introverted culture/difficulty to make friends, the women, and the long flights to get anywhere else.
What I'm looking for:
Essential:
Friendly people, easy to build a social circle
A good dating scene - I tend to prefer more "traditionally attractive" women that hipster girls, and am far more likely to meet a girl in a bar than a coffee shop or hiking trail
Good nightlife
A reasonable cost of living, and property market, I'm looking to buy
Some kind of outdoor recreation, whether that's lakes or beaches in the summer, or mountains in the winter
Desirable:
Nice weather for most of the year
Lots of sports
Culturally diverse, not just within Americans but ideally a good expat/international community as well
Museums, galleries, history, cultural events
Good domestic and international air connections
I've been to all cities recently and I like them all. So rather than share what I like about them, I'm going to share my concerns, and see if the board can dispel them
Chicago: obviously the winters (though can probably disappear to the snow for a significant portion of them). It's gotten the least love from my friends. Probably highest COL of the selection, though property seems very reasonable. Declining population, outdoor rec limited to the lake during the warm months.
Charleston: poor flight connections, might not find the international-ness, nightlife seemed very college-aged, could become small and same-y after a while
Austin: city has exploded in population ("don't move here"), very hipster in parts and this might rub off on a lot of the female population, property prices seem artificially high
Denver: "Menver", lack of summer recreation except hiking? Every dude there is a fit skier/snowboarder type and I won't stand out at all!
These places are all so different. By cost of living it goes Denver, Chicago, Austin, Charleston. Chicago has the best sports culture, museums/galleries/history/events, and probably the most flights (O'Hare). Chicago does not have the best weather if you're turned off by winter, although summer is wonderful.
What is your budget? What kind of neighborhood do you want to live in?
These places are all so different. By cost of living it goes Denver, Chicago, Austin, Charleston. Chicago has the best sports culture, museums/galleries/history/events, and probably the most flights (O'Hare). Chicago does not have the best weather if you're turned off by winter, although summer is wonderful.
What is your budget? What kind of neighborhood do you want to live in?
Yep, fully realise they are completely different! That's kind of the idea I guess.. big city living vs small southern city vs Texas or Mountain city that's growing super fast.
You think Denver has a higher COL than Chicago?
Budget is certainly ample, I'm on a decent West Coast salary, could pay up to $2k/month for an apartment, to buy looking around $400. If Chicago I'd certainly want to be reasonably close to the lake, Old Town looks nice.
Yep, fully realise they are completely different! That's kind of the idea I guess.. big city living vs small southern city vs Texas or Mountain city that's growing super fast.
You think Denver has a higher COL than Chicago?
Budget is certainly ample, I'm on a decent West Coast salary, could pay up to $2k/month for an apartment, to buy looking around $400. If Chicago I'd certainly want to be reasonably close to the lake, Old Town looks nice.
Denver most certainly has a higher COL than Chicago.
Based on what you're looking for, it sounds to me like Chicago checks off the most boxes. Largest dating scene, best nightlife, affordable, the lake/beaches, sports, diverse, museums, airport, etc. Denver would probably be second best followed by Austin. I don't know if Charleston is what you're looking for, but I have a very limited understanding of you and what you want, lol.
What kind of weather do you consider "nice?" I personally find Chicago winters and Austin summers to be equally lousy.
Chicago's going to be the most urban of the choices and will have the most amenities and will probably check off the biggest number of boxes.
Denver is more than just hiking during the summer. There are literally hundreds of miles of bike paths within a 1-2 hour radius of Denver. In fact, you can now ride a road bike from Denver to Vail without having to ride on the freeway at all. There's also back-country camping, fishing, kayaking, and whitewater rafting. We have a few small reservoirs nearby and those are used for water skiing, jet skiing, and (in some cases) paddle boarding and wind surfing.
I would say Denver easily has the best summer weather of the choices. Not blazingly hot for weeks on end (Austin), and not humid at all compared to the other 3.
The drawbacks of Denver? It's on the plains so it's fairly flat, very dry, and doesn't have much in the way of a tree canopy. Snow season is long (snow season != winter). The snow can fly anytime from September to May, but it doesn't stick around for weeks on end because you can have a snowstorm one day and 50-60 degree temps a few days later. The truly cold parts of winter last from early December into early February.
Denver is not as diverse as Chicago. Latinos are the predominant minority here.
The whole "Menver" thing used to be truer than it is today. I believe Seattle's gender ratio is actually worse than Denver's these days.
Denver most certainly has a higher COL than Chicago.
Based on what you're looking for, it sounds to me like Chicago checks off the most boxes. Largest dating scene, best nightlife, affordable, the lake/beaches, sports, diverse, museums, airport, etc. Denver would probably be second best followed by Austin. I don't know if Charleston is what you're looking for, but I have a very limited understanding of you and what you want, lol.
Have you visited all these places?
I have. Liked them all, to be honest.
Charleston was great, I enjoyed the laid-back lifestyle, and the nightlife on King St was a lot of fun . It was all quite young though and didn't seem like much in the 25-35 age bracket (I gather it exists, but not on King St). It's also surprisingly expensive to live on the peninsula, due to the zoning laws preventing high rises generating a limited-supply market.
What kind of weather do you consider "nice?" I personally find Chicago winters and Austin summers to be equally lousy.
Chicago's going to be the most urban of the choices and will have the most amenities and will probably check off the biggest number of boxes.
Denver is more than just hiking during the summer. There are literally hundreds of miles of bike paths within a 1-2 hour radius of Denver. In fact, you can now ride a road bike from Denver to Vail without having to ride on the freeway at all. There's also back-country camping, fishing, kayaking, and whitewater rafting. We have a few small reservoirs nearby and those are used for water skiing, jet skiing, and (in some cases) paddle boarding and wind surfing.
I would say Denver easily has the best summer weather of the choices. Not blazingly hot for weeks on end (Austin), and not humid at all compared to the other 3.
The drawbacks of Denver? It's on the plains so it's fairly flat, very dry, and doesn't have much in the way of a tree canopy. Snow season is long (snow season != winter). The snow can fly anytime from September to May, but it doesn't stick around for weeks on end because you can have a snowstorm one day and 50-60 degree temps a few days later. The truly cold parts of winter last from early December into early February.
Denver is not as diverse as Chicago. Latinos are the predominant minority here.
The whole "Menver" thing used to be truer than it is today. I believe Seattle's gender ratio is actually worse than Denver's these days.
I haven't been to Denver for some time. I might have to take a trip.
It clearly wins - by a distance - for all the outdoor options. I think it might come 4th on my list for women and social side, but I may be mistaken. I just have the impression that everyone there is outdoor-and-fitness obsessed, which is fine because I like to keep active, but not to the point of tedium and not to the point where it is an essential part of your dating life, if that makes sense.
I mean I like hiking, but I'd go maybe 4 times a year, not every weekend. In Seattle, it seems like it's everyone's favourite thing to do (regardless of the weather!)
To the nice weather question, I really just mean not too much rain. Cold isn't a huge issue for me (famous last words)... I spend a lot of time at the snow each winter.
Charleston was great, I enjoyed the laid-back lifestyle, and the nightlife on King St was a lot of fun . It was all quite young though and didn't seem like much in the 25-35 age bracket (I gather it exists, but not on King St). It's also surprisingly expensive to live on the peninsula, due to the zoning laws preventing high rises generating a limited-supply market.
Haven't been to Charleston, so I'm not familiar with nightlife there, but I'm sure you could find something. I personally feel Chicago is superior to Austin, Charleston, and Denver when it comes to nightlife. Chicago doesn't really have a ton of clubs. There are A LOT of neighborhood bars/entertainment districts. Strong night life presence on streets like Milwaukee, Clark, Hubbard, Halsted, Randolph, etc.
Austin
Median Salary: 55k
Median Housing Cost: 316k
Charleston
Median Salary: 52k
Median Housing Cost: 365k
Chicago
Median Salary: 64k
Median Housing Cost: 219k
Denver
Median Salary: 62k
Median Housing Cost: 398k (SFH)/250k (Condo)
Colorado (Denver) is the most expensive state of the four in terms of income vs living expenses. Texas is most affordable as a whole (although Austin is pricey these days), followed by Illinois and South Carolina.
Chicago
Median Salary: 64k
Median Housing Cost: 219k
You'd have to take into account that the median includes some horrible neighbourhoods though. That said, looking on Zillow you can get some great places in nice areas like Old Town and Lake View for a very good price.
I'm too old for clubs but fun neighbourhood bars are totally my wheelhouse.
Income per city does not matter, I make the same wherever, the only difference would be in local taxes. Texas wins on that with no state income tax, but is balanced somewhat by the high property taxes.
Edit: on looking it up, Illinois has even higher property taxes
You'd have to take into account that the median includes some horrible neighbourhoods though.
It's that way everywhere. Colorado has the lowest poverty rate at 13 percent. Illinois at 14 percent. Texas and South Carolina at 16 percent. Minor differences.
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. It was all quite young though and didn't seem like much in the 25-35 age bracket (I gather it exists, but not on King St). It's also surprisingly expensive to live on the peninsula, due to the zoning laws preventing high rises generating a limited-supply market.
