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Yeah, I agree that DC is being highly underrated in this thread. Does another city even have the same amount of city centers in and around the core (Other than NY/LA)?
Walkabity I'm not sure has a clear winner when talking about walking alone, but in terms of just getting around without a car DC's urban core once again has the best transit system.
A somewhat subjective statement, but sure we'll let this one slide.
Best transit system in terms of...
- bus service?
- streetcar service?
- light rail service?
- express bus rapid transit service?
- subway service?
- connection with regional express rail service?
And how about other factors that make a transit system "the best"...
- frequency in off-peak hours: bus, metro/subway, streetcar/light rail, bus rapid transit, regional express rail (commuter trains)
- subway and lightrail headway in off-peak hours
- station accessibility
- transit safety and cleanliness
- age and maintenance of rolling stock
And other factors that determine if locals actually use their transit systems en masse...
- daily weekday ridership (for all modes of transport)
- daily weekend ridership
- annual system ridership
- % of local population that use transit
- % of local population that drive
- integration with regional heavy rail stations
- integration with local cycling infrastructure (the availability of bike stations, bike lanes, bike storage, bike repair shops around subway and bus stations)
A somewhat subjective statement, but sure we'll let this one slide.
Best transit system in terms of...
Maybe you can say it's a little subjective. But remember we are only looking at the urban cores of cities. I think if I said "rapid transit" that would be undeniable. I don't believe that all forms of transit are created equal. I think rapid transit (heavy rail) is far superior to buses, light rail, street cars, etc.
personally speaking, I am a big transit advocate. I do not own a car and I rely on public transit everyday whenever I need to get anywhere. However, I refuse to take the bus. I can probably count on one hand how many times I take the bus in an entire year. Buses frustrate me how slow they go and how they stop every single block. I can't even tell you bus routes in my own city. I would rather buy a car than have to rely on buses.
- bus service? See above how I feel about buses. I'm also not familiar at all with DC's bus system to be honest, but a bus system is a bus system. It's more or less the same in every city and I'm sure DC has a decent bus system. At the same time there's less of a need to rely on buses since the subway system does a great job covering the city and providing connections.
- streetcar service? I'm not sure what makes streetcars functionally different from buses tbh.
- light rail service? DC (like NYC) doesn't really do light rail since heavy rail is extensive enough and more efficient. Light rail can be good if grade-separated, but still a step down from rapid transit in terms of speed and capacity. Grade-separated light rail is probably the next best thing other than rapid transit/heavy rail, but I see it as kind of the cheaper alternative. I get that not everywhere has the density and demand for rapid transit, nor the funding, but I think a light rail substitute for an actual rapid transit is more of a short-term fix that could potentially limit growth in the long run.
Just imagine if you took any one NYC subway line for example and replaced it with light rail. That could never work!
- express bus rapid transit service? I know they have them in DC but I don't know enough about them. I guess this is a step up from a regular bus.
- subway service? Yes! DC's subway system absolutely destroys all these other cities.
- connection with regional express rail service? The DC Metro functions as a subway/commuter rail hybrid. In DC city limits and immediate surrounding areas it functions as a subway, but when you go farther out into Virginia or Maryland it functions more as a commuter rail. BUT I'm not sure if this is very relevant to the topic of urban cores since this is more of a suburban commuter thing
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123
And how about other factors that make a transit system "the best"...
- frequency in off-peak hours: bus, metro/subway, streetcar/light rail, bus rapid transit, regional express rail (commuter trains)
- subway and lightrail headway in off-peak hours
- station accessibility
- transit safety and cleanliness
- age and maintenance of rolling stock
The DC Metro is pretty modern and very clean. The oldest lines opened in the 1970s I believe, and they range in age all the way from the until 2014 or so, and there are still expansions still under construction, as well as multiple ideas/proposals for future lines after the silver line is completed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123
And other factors that determine if locals actually use their transit systems en masse...
- daily weekday ridership (for all modes of transport)
- daily weekend ridership
- annual system ridership
- % of local population that use transit
- % of local population that drive
- integration with regional heavy rail stations
- integration with local cycling infrastructure (the availability of bike stations, bike lanes, bike storage, bike repair shops around subway and bus stations)
Ridership is certainly there. The DC Metro is the 3rd busiest Rapid Transit system in The US behind the NYC Subway and Chicago L, and it is very close in numbers to the Chicago L.
DC is not like other cities in America. When other cities were spending money on building highways, DC decided to go the opposite way and spend its money on building an extensive subway system instead, despite massive backlash and controversy. I think it has paid off and will continue to do so even more in the future
Here is the D.C. Metro map. Especially when focusing only on the urban core, I really think DC's transit is the clear winner. Plus the stations are pretty new (some brand new), spacious, and clean! Which is always strange to me whenever I go there, as a New Yorker, lol.
Maybe you can say it's a little subjective. But remember we are only looking at the urban cores of cities. I think if I said "rapid transit" that would be undeniable. I don't believe that all forms of transit are created equal. I think rapid transit (heavy rail) is far superior to buses, light rail, street cars, etc.
personally speaking, I am a big transit advocate. I do not own a car and I rely on public transit everyday whenever I need to get anywhere. However, I refuse to take the bus. I can probably count on one hand how many times I take the bus in an entire year. Buses frustrate me how slow they go and how they stop every single block. I can't even tell you bus routes in my own city. I would rather buy a car than have to rely on buses.
- bus service? See above how I feel about buses. I'm also not familiar at all with DC's bus system to be honest, but a bus system is a bus system. It's more or less the same in every city and I'm sure DC has a decent bus system. At the same time there's less of a need to rely on buses since the subway system does a great job covering the city and providing connections.
- streetcar service? I'm not sure what makes streetcars functionally different from buses tbh.
- light rail service? DC (like NYC) doesn't really do light rail since heavy rail is extensive enough and more efficient. Light rail can be good if grade-separated, but still a step down from rapid transit in terms of speed and capacity. Grade-separated light rail is probably the next best thing other than rapid transit/heavy rail, but I see it as kind of the cheaper alternative. I get that not everywhere has the density and demand for rapid transit, nor the funding, but I think a light rail substitute for an actual rapid transit is more of a short-term fix that could potentially limit growth in the long run.
Just imagine if you took any one NYC subway line for example and replaced it with light rail. That could never work!
- express bus rapid transit service? I know they have them in DC but I don't know enough about them. I guess this is a step up from a regular bus.
- subway service? Yes! DC's subway system absolutely destroys all these other cities.
- connection with regional express rail service? The DC Metro functions as a subway/commuter rail hybrid. In DC city limits and immediate surrounding areas it functions as a subway, but when you go farther out into Virginia or Maryland it functions more as a commuter rail. BUT I'm not sure if this is very relevant to the topic of urban cores since this is more of a suburban commuter thing
- frequency in off-peak hours: bus, metro/subway, streetcar/light rail, bus rapid transit, regional express rail (commuter trains)
- subway and lightrail headway in off-peak hours
- station accessibility
- transit safety and cleanliness
- age and maintenance of rolling stock
The DC Metro is pretty modern and very clean. The oldest lines opened in the 1970s I believe, and they range in age all the way from the until 2014 or so, and there are still expansions still under construction, as well as multiple ideas/proposals for future lines after the silver line is completed.
- daily weekday ridership (for all modes of transport)
- daily weekend ridership
- annual system ridership
- % of local population that use transit
- % of local population that drive
- integration with regional heavy rail stations
- integration with local cycling infrastructure (the availability of bike stations, bike lanes, bike storage, bike repair shops around subway and bus stations)
Ridership is certainly there. The DC Metro is the 3rd busiest Rapid Transit system in The US behind the NYC Subway and Chicago L, and it is very close in numbers to the Chicago L.
DC is not like other cities in America. When other cities were spending money on building highways, DC decided to go the opposite way and spend its money on building an extensive subway system instead, despite massive backlash and controversy. I think it has paid off and will continue to do so even more in the future
Metro ridership will rise back to its pre-safetrack level now that the last phase ended last week.
I don't believe that all forms of transit are created equal. I think rapid transit (heavy rail) is far superior to buses, light rail, street cars, etc.
However, I refuse to take the bus. I can probably count on one hand how many times I take the bus in an entire year. Buses frustrate me how slow they go and how they stop every single block. I can't even tell you bus routes in my own city. I would rather buy a car than have to rely on buses.
Not all bus systems, not all subway systems are created equal either.
The buses may not work well for you in NYC due to the amount of traffic, the lack of fully separated bus rapid transit lanes, and the lack of transit priority signaling (the 3 main causes of bus delays), but that doesn't mean other cities can't do them better.
Toronto currently operates the 3rd largest bus fleet in North America behind NYC MTA and LA MTA. The fact that it has a ridership of over 1.4 million / day speaks to the extensive coverage and quality of service on Toronto's bus and express bus systems.
Some fantastic examples of a well-developed bus systems include the newest Bus Rapid Transit network in York Region just north of Toronto, equipped with:
- Fully separated BRT lanes
- Subway-like station infrastructure (indoor waiting areas, 24/7 service, connection to subway stations, free WiFi, real-time arrival dashboards)
- Priority signaling that always gives priority to BRT when they approach major intersections
- Courtesy Wiki Commons with Reuse Rights - Toronto Transit Commission
The DC Metro is pretty modern and very clean. The oldest lines opened in the 1970s I believe, and they range in age all the way from the until 2014 or so, and there are still expansions still under construction, as well as multiple ideas/proposals for future lines after the silver line is completed.
I think most objective observers can agree that any subway system that has seen 9 major derailments in the last 10 years should neither be called "modern" nor "safe", and most definitely not something to be proud of - being the metro system of the capital city of the wealthiest and most powerful country on the face of this planet. For a subway system that you claim to be the "best" in the list of cities, it has also experienced 2 major derailments in the last 10 months, keeping in mind that these aren't merely your average train delays or day-to-day passenger incidents, but major system-wide safety and infrastructure failures. And we aren't even counting the three major train collisions that occurred in the last 10 years.
I'm also a fan of public transit, and definitely rapid transit which is my preferred mode of transport for day to day travel, but I don't believe that subways should be prioritized over all other forms of public transit, simply because not all cities/neighborhoods warrant subway investment, especially in areas where much cheaper and more efficient modes of transit can be built, that are just as efficient as subways but at a fraction of time and cost.
Last edited by bostonkid123; 07-04-2017 at 11:41 AM..
^^ apparently you're not going to let DC claim number 3 in the US in transit including Canada? So is Toronto the BESTEST OF the Best you want to say? Newer? More Modern? Are American cities stats in coverage and ridership irreverent over some age to you over Toronto?
To me .... though streetcars serve a purpose.... they are a OLD format with overhead ugly wires across streets (especially in Toronto) and then many have the ugly power-line poles too.
Good NYC and Chicago's is left out here LOL. But you can knock San Francisco's if you want LOL? It is in the cities list. Or Boston having the first Elevated system.
Seems you want to declare Toronto Best ..... period in US/Canada? You can say so - over just infer in being newer. Other Toronto posters would not even TRY to be so subtle and start posting the transit maps on the offensive ....
Walkabity I'm not sure has a clear winner when talking about walking alone, but in terms of just getting around without a car DC's urban core once again has the best transit system.
public transport
noun [ U ] UK /ˌpʌb.lɪk ˈtræn.spɔːt/
"a system of vehicles such as buses and trains that operate at regular times on fixed routes and are used by the public"
San Francisco has the slowest average public transit speeds in North America, with an average speed of just 8.1 MPH. BART only has a handful of stops within SF city limits, and the streetcar/LRT lines are painfully slow as they share lanes with cars. Speed matters. It's not even in the top 10 best systems. It can't be when it takes you so long to get anywhere because it's so slow.
San Francisco needs to build fully grade-separated rail the the northwest and southwest parts of the city before it can claim a decent transit system.
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Or Boston having the first Elevated system.
