Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Okay, but you also have to remember that it's probably more like Memphis, Nashville or Atlanta, than Milwaukee, Chicago, Minneapolis....all also in the Midwest.
The OP isn't comparing it to those cities. The Midwest is not monolithic. The Plains are pretty different from the Great Lakes. Tulsa isn't much like the Great Lakes cities, but it's a lot more like the Plains Midwest cities than it is other Southern cities.
It has some similar commonalities also found in Plains cities, but Tulsa is at a much lower latitude, meaning it lacks the vast majority of the common culture and climate found in the North, but fits in much better with the South.
As someone who was born and raised in Oklahoma and has been back here again for 30 years I still think you are missing the mark a little bit. I agree with you that Tulsa is southern to a significant extent. But Tulsa also tries really hard not to be.
I do not think the elite class in Tulsa would consider being called "southern" any kind of compliment. The working class in Tulsa to a great degree would be considered southern. But even the southerners who have made it to the elite class tend to eschew their southern roots and gravitate towards the eastern/midwestern sophisticate manner of Tulsa's old money.
Tulsa has worked hard through the years to cultivate this environment (which came from it's early days) because they want so much to be OKC's superior concerning highbrow culture.
It has some similar commonalities also found in Plains cities, but Tulsa is at a much lower latitude, meaning it lacks the vast majority of the common culture and climate found in the North, but fits in much better with the South.
The climate has a lot of hallmarks of the Plains. It's unpredictable, prone to violent storms, and 4 distinct seasons. Sure, it gets less snow and more heat than points north. It DOES have Southern characteristics. Never said it was completely Midwestern. The poster who said it has nothing in common with the South is wrong. But there are cultural similarities among cities in Plains states, along that north and south continuum, that make them as much alike each other as other places in their respective census bureau districts.
It makes sense to compare Tulsa to the cities it's being compared to here. They have a lot in common, and aren't that far from each other. For the record, I prefer it to Omaha. I think it has a little more cultural vibrance, and it's entertainment districts feel a little more organic and less tourist focused.
-Weather: Omaha, KC, Tulsa.
-Culture: KC, Omaha, Tulsa.
-Lifestyle: KC, Omaha, Tulsa.
-Terrain/Elevation/Topography: KC, Omaha, Tulsa.
-Metro: KC, Omaha, Tulsa.
-Attitudes: Omaha, KC, Tulsa.
-Economy: KC, Omaha, Tulsa.
-Cost of living: Tulsa, KC, Omaha.
-Rank them IYO: Kansas City, by a mile, but it's bigger, older as a major city, and just more interesting. It also has vast suburbs for the family thing too, if that's your thing. A bit out of the league of the other two all around. Touristy-ish, but not always, not everywhere.
Omaha is perfectly nice, but would get old more quickly.
Tulsa does nothing for me.
My cousin lived in Tulsa for a few years and I visited him there frequently. I was living in Des Moines and visited him there quite a bit.
Tulsa may be in the Census Bureau's South region, and it has some definite southern influences, but it's way more like Omaha, Des Moines, Wichita, or KC than it's like Memphis, Nashville, New Orleans, or Atlanta, etc in my experience. There's a lot of shared culture among the Plains states as you go from north to south.
Oklahoma a state that doesn't have a neatly packaged regional identity in my experience. There are definite Southern, Midwestern, and Western/Southwest influences. Tulsa seems to fit more with other Plains cities than it does with the South, and given it's proximity to Kansas City, it makes sense to analyze both, IMO.
I would consider Tulsa okay to include in this group, Oklahoma's location outside the Census Bureau-defined Midwest notwithstanding*, but as for that Southern part:
Let's not forget that Kansas City did have legal segregation not only of its schools but of public accommodations (Missouri, a slave state, did not move to totally disenfranchise its black population as the states of the former Confederacy did, however).
But Tulsa is the only one of the cities being discussed here that had a white race riot. It destroyed a prosperous black business district known as "the black Wall Street" in 1923.
Still, I would say that Tulsa has Midwestern aspirations while Kansas City is Midwestern with only a slight Southern accent (our barbecue culture being one of those Southern-influenced things, given its generally acknowledged origins in Henry Perry's migration to the city from Memphis in 1921).
*though there is a community in Oklahoma called Midwest City. And did I just say "our" in reference to Kansas City? I may be a Philadelphian, but a good chunk of my heart remains in the Heart of America, my forever hometown.
I would consider Tulsa okay to include in this group, Oklahoma's location outside the Census Bureau-defined Midwest notwithstanding*, but as for that Southern part:
Let's not forget that Kansas City did have legal segregation not only of its schools but of public accommodations (Missouri, a slave state, did not move to totally disenfranchise its black population as the states of the former Confederacy did, however).
But Tulsa is the only one of the cities being discussed here that had a white race riot. It destroyed a prosperous black business district known as "the black Wall Street" in 1923.
Still, I would say that Tulsa has Midwestern aspirations while Kansas City is Midwestern with only a slight Southern accent (our barbecue culture being one of those Southern-influenced things, given its generally acknowledged origins in Henry Perry's migration to the city from Memphis in 1921).
*though there is a community in Oklahoma called Midwest City. And did I just say "our" in reference to Kansas City? I may be a Philadelphian, but a good chunk of my heart remains in the Heart of America, my forever hometown.
Yeah, it's definitely not a place that neatly slots into one regional identity or another. I see it as a continuum. Where KC is Midwestern with a slight Southern accent (let's call it 80/20 Midwest/South), Tulsa is like 60/40 Midwest/South. That's pretty Southern by comparison to KC or Omaha (which I would call 100% Plains Midwestern), but also places it in reference to the rest of the South.
You know, one can argue Tulsa's placement many times over, as is evidenced by this Forum. However, I think it's always wise to defer back to the actual boundaries of each region, as laid out by the US Government. Tulsa is in Oklahoma, which is in the south. Lowest common denominator....it's in the south.
And yet Wichita is the largest city in Kansas. That explains a good bit as to why the state struggles to retain younger people in general if they don't move to the Kansas City metro area.
The Kansas side of KC is like twice the size of Wichita even though Wichita might be the largest actual "city".
The vast majority of the Kansas economy is in the KCMO suburbs.
I have never found Tulsa to be all that southern. It reminds me more of Des Moines than say Birmingham or Mobile. OKC is much more southern.
The Kansas side of KC is like twice the size of Wichita even though Wichita might be the largest actual "city".
The vast majority of the Kansas economy is in the KCMO suburbs.
I have never found Tulsa to be all that southern. It reminds me more of Des Moines than say Birmingham or Mobile. OKC is much more southern.
Tulsa and Des Moines always struck me as very similar. Both had prominent architectural installations from the 20's, downtown minor league ball parks, really established outlying neighborhoods for cities of their size within the city proper, private colleges just outside of downtown, grid system, and zoning. The feel is very similar. The Blue Dome area and Court Ave seemed similar for "party" areas.
Tulsa MSA is a little bigger, I believe, but when I was visiting Tulsa from Des Moines, I was always struck by the similarities (which made me grow an affinity for Tulsa).
Tulsa MSA is a little bigger, I believe, but when I was visiting Tulsa from Des Moines, I was always struck by the similarities (which made me grow an affinity for Tulsa).
To throw in one of those SAT analogies:
Broken Arrow:West Des Moines :: Mission Hills:Ladue
Ladue is the toniest suburb of the city of St. Louis. I would put Kansas City and St. Louis in the same tier of metropolises now; where metro St. Louis was once twice Greater Kansas City's size, that gap has shrunk to about 600,000 and continues to close.
Edited to add in support of your observation: Oklahoma City doesn't really have a suburb along the lines of West Des Moines or Broken Arrow, at least not as far as I could tell passing through it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
