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View Poll Results: More bilingual?
Miami 20 27.40%
Montreal 53 72.60%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2018, 07:06 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
6,639 posts, read 4,517,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringSnow View Post
Across the entire USA, sure. But if we focus in on just the northeast, then I'm not so sure.
i'm pretty sure that more in new england have visited montréal and not miami. i think the 2nd language in most places is french; not spanish.
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:15 PM
 
11,445 posts, read 10,373,836 times
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The vast majority of Hispanics in Miami are white? That's so not true, there are many people from Colombia, DR, Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc., very few of whom would be considered white

And not all Cubans are white, such as Camila Cabello
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Old 01-23-2018, 11:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
The vast majority of Hispanics in Miami are white? That's so not true, there are many people from Colombia, DR, Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc., very few of whom would be considered white

And not all Cubans are white, such as Camila Cabello
It's true, why don't you post some statistics to disprove what I said. And what's your experience with Miami?

Btw, many Colombians are White (as are many people in Mexico - it's just that most of the immigrants from Mexico to Houston and LA tend not to be White).

Excluding Nicaraguans, there are hardly any Guatemalans in Miami, and not many people from DR (most of them are in NYC).

Again, if you don't know what you're talking about, why are you offering an opinion?
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb View Post
It's funny because there are stats riddled throughout this thread, including my own provided by the US census, yet you completely go by your anecdote about some contractors you hired as proof of something. All while real life evidence, including my own experiences at FIU or the French Canadian poster's POV, is considered "just making up things as you go along"

I'll let you have this one. I'll let the average reader make up their own mind what to believe. Queires tu premio?
I think some people need to re-read this thread from the beginning. (Not referring to you. )
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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I realize that what I and what some others have posted here doesn't jive with a certain alarmist American view that often sounds like:

"OMFG Miami - nobody talkin' English, everybody talkin' Spanish!"

"Miami don't feel like America no more!"

"Last anglo outta Dade turn out the lights!"

Etc

Etc

But as we say in my part of the world... c'est la vie.

Last edited by Acajack; 01-24-2018 at 09:23 AM..
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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BTW I just had a discussion about this on another forum, and so I am going to post a few points than I and others made on there.


It's hard to believe that Spanish is more essential in Miami when there are quite a few French-only 100k+ jobs in Montreal such as high school principal or local bank branch managers, etc. that don't really require you to know any English...

I picked those two examples off the top of my head but of course there are other French only jobs too. My sense is the bank manager in Montreal would be more likely than the high school principal to know at least some English. Given the more global nature of the financial sector. Obviously if he were to climb the echelons of the company and go to work in a bigger bank head office downtown he'd bump into more requirements to know English fairly quickly.

Just to give you an example not from Montreal but still from Quebec. One of my neighbours is the head of a department (director or DG) for the city I live in. The city has 285,000 people and is located right on the border with Ontario. But in Quebec. The operational language of the city administration is French. The city has an anglo minority of about 10% and Ottawa Canada's capital is right next door with 900,000 people, quite predominantly English-speaking. My neighbour who is in his late 40s has a master's degree in whatever field it is he works in. He has a house worth 500k, drives a BMW and has a cottage in the hills. He holidays down south at least once every winter. He once had an "anglo" live-in girlfriend but she also spoke French well.

I've been with him in Ottawa (it's only 10 minutes away after all) and seen him in action and he can barely speak English to save his life. I mean, he could order food from a menu but the simple banter with the waiter was mostly over his head.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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U.S.-settled Hispanics (even those with shaky English) usually seem hesitant to converse in Spanish with people like me (I speak passable Spanish) whom they perceive to be "gringos". (I guess they feel like they'd be betraying their new home?) In the instances where I've used my Spanish in the U.S. it's always been with people whom I assume to be fairly newly immigrants (who often speak very little English at all) or people who are visiting the U.S. from Latin America and who also don't speak much English. The latter group is quite numerous in South Florida of course.

So if you think about the above for a minute, the idea of the defiant 7-Eleven or Walmart cashier in Miami who actually tries to force non-Spanish speakers (against their will) to interact with him or her in Spanish might exist as an extreme outlier, but it's not likely to be a common occurrence at all. (Again, it's more an urban legend that is the bread and butter of the extreme 'Merrica love it or leave it crowd.)

I totally believe that the average Miamian does run into people who speak only Spanish on a regular basis, but it's gonna be the random mom with a horde of kids on a bus or in the supermarket checkout line, rather than the cop giving you a ticket, your dentist or the guy coming to fix your AC unit.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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Here are some other stats:

https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...w.xhtml?src=CF

The differentiation is between people who speak "only English" at home and people who speak another language at home. In the latter case, this can obviously include English + Spanish, English + Haitian Creole, etc.

Kids who are English dominant with shaky Spanish but who still babble a bit of the language with their padres around the dinner table on Sunday would count in that total, for example.

There is no way two thirds to three quarters of the population of Miami uses primarily Spanish when out and about in the city.

And yes I know the city. I am fortunate in that my wife's family has a snowbird relationship with Miami hat goes back about six decades. I actually really like the city, and while their area is along the coast to the north of Miami Beach, being of a curious nature I like to explore and so I've done lots of urban discovering on my own there including Hialeah, Little Havana, and even Overtown and some Haitian neighbourhoods.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
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Thinking about this a bit more.
About two thirds of Miami's population is Hispanic. The rest of the population is non-Hispanic and therefore can't really be Spanish only speakers.
In Montreal around 40% of the population speaks only French according to the Canadian census.
In order to arrive at a *similar* (not higher, just similar) percentage of Spanish only speakers in Miami, around two thirds of all the Hispanics would have to speak Spanish only.
Keep in mind the Hispanic total includes Hispanics who speak only English, Hispanic kids who go to school (in English all day), Hispanics who work for pretty much any organization or company that's bigger than a mom and pop shop...
So it's practically impossible for anywhere near two thirds of Miami's Hispanic population (much less half the overall Miami population) to be monolingual in Spanish.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,756 posts, read 37,644,012 times
Reputation: 11522
Also, according to the U.S. census something like 75% of Miami residents primarily speak another language. But keep in mind that census forms are generally filled out by one older parent. That older person who filled out the census may speak primarily Spanish with so so English but their kids and teens and early 20 somethings who also live in the home will absolutely be speaking primarily English with so so Spanish.


In fairness those census forms in Montreal will also be filled out by parents on behalf of their kids.


The main difference though is that 100% of the "French Canadian" kids (equivalent to the "Hispanic" demographic for the purposes of this discussion) in Montreal speak French, and virtually all of them are also "French dominant" (to use the US term).


And of course all schoolkids and young adults in Montreal (including non-native French speakers like anglos and the kids of immigrants) speak French these days, unless they've arrived in the city fairly recently.
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