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I don't think anyone would disagree that Detroit fared much worse than Pittsburgh back during the auto collapse. Detroit was in epic free-fall, with catastrophic job losses.
But we're talking 2018. Is Detroit faring worse than Pittsburgh right now? The data would indicate no.
Again though, Pittsburgh's growth is heavily concentrated in the city, while the rest of the metro continues to fall apart.
Look at this data on housing starts in the Pittsburgh MSA in 2017.
Out of the total housing units constructed, 64% of them were within Allegheny County - the core county of the metro. The source article notes that 1,714 were in the City of Pittsburgh proper - 31.8% of all metro construction. This is impressive, considering Pittsburgh is only 11.5% of the MSA population. It essentially means the core city is punching 2.76 times its weight when it comes to new housing units.
Again, that was the thrust of this discussion. Pittsburgh performs well for the rust belt as a core city, not as a metro. I freely admitted that much of this has nothing to do with anything special the city did - a lot of it comes down to accidents of geography - industry being dispersed in the suburbs, relatively low levels of white flight, and a very high concentration of local universities. But I've lived in Detroit, and I've lived in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is very different from Detroit. Honestly, my experience living here has been more akin to when I lived in New Haven, CT (although that's a smaller city) than my time in Detroit. Or even somewhat akin to DC, although that is obviously a bigger and denser city (and was much grittier when I lived there).
Again though, Pittsburgh's growth is heavily concentrated in the city, while the rest of the metro continues to fall apart.
Look at this data on housing starts in the Pittsburgh MSA in 2017.
Out of the total housing units constructed, 64% of them were within Allegheny County - the core county of the metro. The source article notes that 1,714 were in the City of Pittsburgh proper - 31.8% of all metro construction. This is impressive, considering Pittsburgh is only 11.5% of the MSA population. It essentially means the core city is punching 2.76 times its weight when it comes to new housing units.
Again, that was the thrust of this discussion. Pittsburgh performs well for the rust belt as a core city, not as a metro. I freely admitted that much of this has nothing to do with anything special the city did - a lot of it comes down to accidents of geography - industry being dispersed in the suburbs, relatively low levels of white flight, and a very high concentration of local universities. But I've lived in Detroit, and I've lived in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is very different from Detroit. Honestly, my experience living here has been more akin to when I lived in New Haven, CT (although that's a smaller city) than my time in Detroit. Or even somewhat akin to DC, although that is obviously a bigger and denser city (and was much grittier when I lived there).
I will point out that Pittsburgh is but a small portion of Allegheny County. AC 745 square miles; Pittsburgh 55 sm, 7% of the land area of AC.
I will point out that Pittsburgh is but a small portion of Allegheny County. AC 745 square miles; Pittsburgh 55 sm, 7% of the land area of AC.
Right, and within that 7% of the core county for the metro is where a rather large portion of the construction is. I think that was explicitly pointed out.
Though for a comparison thread, it might make sense to also break down the construction for the other metros by metro, core county, and principal city to see if Pittsburgh does indeed substantially differ from its peer cities.
Where'd you get those numbers? I've been looking for them, all I can find is MSA.
Seriously? John's Hopkins (Baltimore); Washington U (St. Louis); Case Western (Cleveland); Wayne State (Detroit); U of Cincinnati (Cincinnati) don't count?
Numbers...
City
40.7% - Pittsburgh
34.1% - Cincinnati
33.0% - St. Louis
29.7% - Baltimore
25.3% - Buffalo
23.7% - Rochester
23.5% - Milwaukee
16.1% - Cleveland
13.8% - Detroit
County
42.4% - St. Louis County*
39.1% - Allegheny County
37.2% - Baltimore County*
36.7% - Monroe County
35.6% - Hamilton County
32.2% - Erie County
30.9% - Cuyahoga County
29.7% - Milwaukee County
22.3% - Wayne County
MSA
38.1% - Baltimore
33.8% - Milwaukee
33.0% - Rochester
32.6% - St. Louis
32.5% - Pittsburgh
31.7% - Cincinnati
30.5% - Buffalo
29.7% - Cleveland
29.5% - Detroit
Baltimore
29.7% city
37.2% core urban county*
38.1% MSA
Buffalo
25.3% city
32.2% core urban county
30.5% MSA
Cincinnati
34.1% city
35.6% core urban county
31.7% MSA
Cleveland
16.1% city
30.9% core urban county
29.7% MSA
Detroit
13.8% city
22.3% core urban county
29.5% MSA
Milwaukee
23.5% city
29.7% core urban county
33.8% MSA
Pittsburgh
40.7% city
39.1% core urban county
32.5% MSA
Rochester
23.7% city
36.7% core urban county
33.0% MSA
St. Louis
33.0% city
42.4% core urban county*
32.6% MSA
Most educated in the city proper
Pittsburgh
Most educated in the core urban county
Buffalo
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Rochester
St. Louis
Most educated in the remainder of the MSA
Baltimore
Detroit
Milwaukee
Least educated in the city
Baltimore
Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Milwaukee
Rochester
Least educated in the core urban county
[NONE]
Least educated in the remainder of the MSA
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
(*: The core urban county does not include the city proper.)
And please bear in mind that these numbers are for people ages 25 and older, so graduate students have very little to do with them, given that most people who earn advanced degrees do so by the age of 25.
^^That's not what eschaton was talking about, though. And I do question that most people are done with grad school by 25 these days. A lot of people these days are 23 or close to it by the time they get their bachelor's. People take all sorts of "gap" years, decades, etc these days as well.
^^That's not what eschaton was talking about, though. And I do question that most people are done with grad school by 25 these days. A lot of people these days are 23 or close to it by the time they get their bachelor's. People take all sorts of "gap" years, decades, etc these days as well.
Fine, fine, let's look at 35- to 44-year-olds then...
City
46.2% - Pittsburgh
35.9% - Cincinnati
35.5% - St. Louis
33.6% - Baltimore
25.7% - Buffalo
24.9% - Milwaukee
19.9% - Rochester
18.1% - Cleveland
11.9% - Detroit
County
49.1% - St. Louis County*
48.6% - Allegheny County
44.6% - Baltimore County*
41.8% - Monroe County
38.6% - Hamilton County
38.3% - Erie County
36.3% - Cuyahoga County
32.3% - Milwaukee County
25.4% - Wayne County
MSA
45.2% - Baltimore
41.9% - Pittsburgh
39.0% - Milwaukee
39.0% - St. Louis
38.5% - Rochester
37.0% - Cincinnati
36.6% - Buffalo
35.5% - Cleveland
34.8% - Detroit
(*: The core urban county does not include the city proper.)
Fine, fine, let's look at 35- to 44-year-olds then...
City
46.2% - Pittsburgh
35.9% - Cincinnati
35.5% - St. Louis
33.6% - Baltimore
25.7% - Buffalo
24.9% - Milwaukee
19.9% - Rochester
18.1% - Cleveland
11.9% - Detroit
County
49.1% - St. Louis County*
48.6% - Allegheny County
44.6% - Baltimore County*
41.8% - Monroe County
38.6% - Hamilton County
38.3% - Erie County
36.3% - Cuyahoga County
32.3% - Milwaukee County
25.4% - Wayne County
MSA
45.2% - Baltimore
41.9% - Pittsburgh
39.0% - Milwaukee
39.0% - St. Louis
38.5% - Rochester
37.0% - Cincinnati
36.6% - Buffalo
35.5% - Cleveland
34.8% - Detroit
(*: The core urban county does not include the city proper.)
Well I'll be damned!
This is largely why Pittsburgh ranks in the Top 10 for Metros nationwide in terms of prosperity making MAJOR strides in wage growth, and skill development. Its a top metro nationwide in terms of this growth!
Prosperity captures changes in the average wealth and income produced by an economy. When a metropolitan area grows by increasing the productivity of its workers, through innovation or by upgrading workers’ skills, for example, the value of those workers’ labor rises. As the value of labor rises, so can wages. Increases in productivity and wages are what ultimately improve living standards for workers and families and the competitiveness of metropolitan economies. Jump to methodology↴
Pittsburgh's overall rank on prosperity: 3rd (This is out of the 100 largest metros in the USA: includes all cities)
Pittsburgh's percent change in:
Productivity: +9.5% (4th of 100)
So I know I shouldn't take the bait, but I did. I looked at the Brookings study.
As expected, it doesn't have anything remotely resembling current or Census verified-data. It measures from 2000, and uses "sources" like Moodys and the like (in other words, no real data).
So if you want to know about Pittsburgh in 2000, according to Moodys, the Brookings Report is your source. If you want to know about Pittsburgh in the current day, with actual census-verified data, the Census is your source.
So I know I shouldn't take the bait, but I did. I looked at the Brookings study.
As expected, it doesn't have anything remotely resembling current or Census verified-data. It measures from 2000, and uses "sources" like Moodys and the like (in other words, no real data).
So if you want to know about Pittsburgh in 2000, according to Moodys, the Brookings Report is your source. If you want to know about Pittsburgh in the current day, with actual census-verified data, the Census is your source.
The data is from 2010 - 2015. Check the sources. All the data is there! I mean to be so ignorant, and not accept Pittsburgh is out performing Detroit is just silly. Look at the education numbers above you! I mean I do not even live in Pittsburgh. Nor am I even from there!! Your ignorance and 'homerism' towards Detroit is over the top. to be frank. lol I understand Detroit is more than just the city itself, but in terms of comparing city proper Pittsburgh is WAY out performing Detroit, and metro Pittsburgh even is keeping its own to be frank. The job growth in Pittsburgh has overwhelmingly beein in eds/meds/tech. over $20 Billion of Pittsburgh economy is in just TECH. I will say tech in Pittsburgh is MUCH more significant than Detroit. Again where is detroits auto turning too? Oh that's right. Pittsburgh and CMU!
Last edited by rowhomecity; 02-08-2018 at 07:39 AM..
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