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How am I in the wrong thread with that argument? And I dont get your obsession with residential housing, its a dime a dozen, its all over the world in abundance, its the easiest type of use to build by far. I'm not impressed, north korea can cram a bunch of people into one area too, not a big deal at all.
The vast majority of people empty sommerville to go into offices in Boston's highrise office buildings for work or school, it's way more important to their livelihood. You can live in downtown Silver Spring way easier than you can in somerville without a car cause there are actually enough jobs there to support its population and then some.
Again care to post facts about what you think makes somerville better than Silver Spring, or will you continue on your baseless rant?
And you just proved my argument with somerville's proposal to Amazon, such an area alone has little chance but latching itself onto Boston's office market and higher education activity gives it a shot. somerville sure as hell couldnt stand on its' own, population density and all. I'm sure somerville would give up some of that population density if it meant getting Amazon, they did it for a suburban big box Target afterall.[/QUOTE
Somerville is the more urban neighborhood because it is more walkable and has higher density throughout the city compared to silver spring. It doesn't matter how you fiddle with the data. These stats have been mentioned before. I don't need to mention then again. The proximity to downtown Boston is a plus not a minus for this urban "suburb." It doesn't work to say well silver spring is less urban but you know it's 6.5 miles from downtown so it's really more urban. It's not. If you want to compare Boston neighborhoods 6.5 miles away that are as dense start a new thread.
So spell it out for me...what's your issue with what I said in that post? Be specific.
First things first, when you get specific on how places like White Plains and New Rochelle and Baltimore and Atlanta areas etc fit into your reasoning / categorization of incorporated and unincorporated areas, I'll do the same, although I think Ive been pretty clear.
A golf course is not preserved green space. It's a golf course. And I'm not complaining. My grandfather loves golf courses. I love golf courses. They scream "rich suburb" much louder than a Target next to a railroad track or a home depot on a former factory scream suburban. Those scream "what are we going to do with this largely abandoned property".
This is what was torn down to build Assembly Row. Not that, exactly. What was left of that when Ford shut the plant down. Somerville is now much smaller than it was in the early 20th century. The population in 1930 was 103k, it dropped to 75k in 2005. Somerville doesn't have to worry about what to do with green space, it was all developed nearly 100 years ago. Home Depot was considered better than an abandoned factory. The development pressure wasn't to fit as many people as possible, but rather to reduce the urban blight left by deindustrialization.
And I guess you're not too familiar with Massachusetts, because if you were you might have noticed that I live in Westwood, which is a dyed-in-the-wool, not afraid at all to admit it honest to goodness suburb. This is the kind of place I like. I don't like Somerville. It's too uniformly dense, the streets are too narrow, and there isn't very much in the way of green space. Excepting for the weather and the fact it's an eight hour drive from where I'd work, I'd greatly prefer to live in somewhere like Silver Spring, that mixes transit accessibility and small areas of very high density with more reasonable (for my tastes) housing density.
When it comes to cherry-picking, we don't have to do any analysis on the single block scale. The density of Somerville is 18k/sq. mi. Even with a Target, a Home Depot, a Christmas Tree Shop, and a Market Basket, it still manages to fit all those people. It is urban. It may not be that nice (some people like it, I don't), but you definitely don't need a car (or probably even want one).
I can see golf courses as being seen as a sign a wealth but they dont scream "suburb", such as volley ball, basketball, soccer field, tennis court would not as well. They are recreational uses, there at least mini golf places on top of parking garages, and places such as TopGolf springing up in urban locations
There are golf courses in several locations in DC proper, in Rock Creek park, and NYC's Central park wants one too, are they suburban?
On the other hand, suburban Big box stores are definitely the posterchild for suburban sprawl, somerville could have definitely been a pioneer in an urban format Big box store but instead allowed them, tore down historic structures and paved way for a sea of parking. That building that was torn down for Assembly Row was actually a nice looking building that could have at least been split and facade kept.
I am very familar with Massachusetts, specifically Worcester and Boston areas, you cant fault me for not knowing where YOU live specifically.
Like I said, population density really doesnt matter in the great scheme of things for urban centers and somerville shows this. This is not where economic vitality lies, I've seen plenty of places that have high residential density and they are just dead most of the day. The retail and office is real activator of the street. It's about balance uses which Silver Spring does 100 times better than somerville.
I can see golf courses as being seen as a sign a wealth but they dont scream "suburb", such as volley ball, basketball, soccer field, tennis court would not as well. They are recreational uses, there at least mini golf places on top of parking garages, and places such as TopGolf springing up in urban locations
There are golf courses in several locations in DC proper, in Rock Creek park, and NYC's Central park wants one too, are they suburban?
On the other hand, suburban Big box stores are definitely the posterchild for suburban sprawl, somerville could have definitely been a pioneer in an urban format Big box store but instead allowed them, tore down historic structures and paved way for a sea of parking. That building that was torn down for Assembly Row was actually a nice looking building that could have at least been split and facade kept.
I am very familar with Massachusetts, specifically Worcester and Boston areas, you cant fault me for not knowing where YOU live specifically.
Like I said, population density really doesnt matter in the great scheme of things for urban centers and somerville shows this. This is not where economic vitality lies, I've seen plenty of places that have high residential density and they are just dead most of the day. The retail and office is real activator of the street. It's about balance uses which Silver Spring does 100 times better than somerville.
Most of urban Boston is still below its historic population maximum. Development that removes blight is considered better than nothing. Somerville has only very recently become somewhere rich people want to live. I remember it being called "Slumerville" in the nit too distant past.
Somerville isn't dead during the day, but it's certainly busier at night. Its not clear why you think office buildings make something urban, but that's probably why you reject Somerville as urban. Placing like the mid-levels in Hong Kong are similarly almost exclusively residential but are definitely still urban, perhaps just not in a way you like.
All I know is that I don't want to live in Somerville because it is too urban, but from satellite photos might be OK with certain parts of Silver Spring.
I can see golf courses as being seen as a sign a wealth but they dont scream "suburb", such as volley ball, basketball, soccer field, tennis court would not as well. They are recreational uses, there at least mini golf places on top of parking garages, and places such as TopGolf springing up in urban locations
There are golf courses in several locations in DC proper, in Rock Creek park, and NYC's Central park wants one too, are they suburban?
On the other hand, suburban Big box stores are definitely the posterchild for suburban sprawl, somerville could have definitely been a pioneer in an urban format Big box store but instead allowed them, tore down historic structures and paved way for a sea of parking. That building that was torn down for Assembly Row was actually a nice looking building that could have at least been split and facade kept.
I am very familar with Massachusetts, specifically Worcester and Boston areas, you cant fault me for not knowing where YOU live specifically.
Like I said, population density really doesnt matter in the great scheme of things for urban centers and somerville shows this. This is not where economic vitality lies, I've seen plenty of places that have high residential density and they are just dead most of the day. The retail and office is real activator of the street. It's about balance uses which Silver Spring does 100 times better than somerville.
I can see golf courses as being seen as a sign a wealth but they dont scream "suburb", such as volley ball, basketball, soccer field, tennis court would not as well. They are recreational uses, there at least mini golf places on top of parking garages, and places such as TopGolf springing up in urban locations
There are golf courses in several locations in DC proper, in Rock Creek park, and NYC's Central park wants one too, are they suburban?
On the other hand, suburban Big box stores are definitely the posterchild for suburban sprawl, somerville could have definitely been a pioneer in an urban format Big box store but instead allowed them, tore down historic structures and paved way for a sea of parking. That building that was torn down for Assembly Row was actually a nice looking building that could have at least been split and facade kept.
I am very familar with Massachusetts, specifically Worcester and Boston areas, you cant fault me for not knowing where YOU live specifically.
Like I said, population density really doesnt matter in the great scheme of things for urban centers and somerville shows this. This is not where economic vitality lies, I've seen plenty of places that have high residential density and they are just dead most of the day. The retail and office is real activator of the street. It's about balance uses which Silver Spring does 100 times better than somerville.
Basketball courts are 4,600 sq feet they can fit it neighborhoods Golf courses can not. There is a huge difference. Even a baseball field can fit in a ciy block, a Golf Couse can not.
First things first, when you get specific on how places like White Plains and New Rochelle and Baltimore and Atlanta areas etc fit into your reasoning / categorization of incorporated and unincorporated areas, I'll do the same, although I think Ive been pretty clear.
I've already said more than once that it's not just about incorporated vs unincorporated areas; that is one of a few factors working in concert with each other, namely history and geography. Baltimore and Atlanta hardly fit that same model and I don't know enough about NYC's suburbs to say if they fit or not but the NYC area is just a different beast altogether due to sheer size/scale.
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