Rochester's Peer Cities? (state, compared, bigger, population)

[murksiderock]

A favorite city of mine, but one that is easily looked over, is Rochester NY. It has the misfortune of being in Buffalo's shadow, as well as being located in an isolated (compared to the rest of the country) pocket of New York State...

There are many factors by which to compare cities, and also many different parallels by which cities could be somewhat similar or connected. That said, I'm a huge believer in that the size of a city's economy tells you more about the amenities it offers, and whom said city should be compared to, rather than population. Example:

Rochester's population grouping would include it alongside cities such as Richmond, but Richmond has an economy over 45% larger and offers a greater level of urban amenities. But what goes with this, is I tend to group cities based on a compilation of economic size and population. Richmond is also roughly 19% larger in population (over 200,000 more people), and in my opinion, besides only the rarest of situations, once that 20% threshold is crossed, a city is in a different population class, even if in the same tier...

Just to further illustrate, both Rochester and Nashville currently fall into the 1 million to 2 million umbrella of cities, but Nashville has over 800,000 more people, and in only MY opinion, the smaller cities are, the more these size differentials matter. All of this is subjective and open to thought and alternative view, but I look at cities with a more nuanced viewpoint...

There is an argument to be made about the physical size of a metropolitan area, and I think it matters, but it's low on the scale of city comparisons and relative importance. Both Richmond and Nashville dwarf Rochester in physical size, so Rochester is achieving it's population at a higher density---but both Richmond and Nashville also has such larger differences in size, scale, growth, and overall amenities that it mostly renders the land area argument as a footnote. And this is a train of thought I apply to every city comparison I do...

I know most people here aren't familiar with Rochester, but I'm interested in hearing who people see as Rochesters peer cities, and why!

Personally, I view Rochester's peer cities as follows, listed alphabetically:

prime peer city group: Albany, Birmingham, Buffalo, Grand Rapids, Honolulu, Omaha, Norfolk-Virginia Beach, Tulsa

alternate peer city group (comparable on some level but maybe not yet peers): Albuquerque, Baton Rouge, Dayton, El Paso, Fresno, Knoxville, Tucson

[grega94]

Maybe it’s similar to Spokane, Boise, or Salt Lake City?

[murksiderock]

Originally Posted by grega94

Maybe it’s similar to Spokane, Boise, or Salt Lake City?

I don't see it. Spokane and Boise are just too small in every conceivable way. Salt Lake seems to be one of those city that projects larger than it actually is, and besides population MSA, it is way ahead of Rochester...

[ckhthankgod]

I’d say Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Birmingham, Omaha, Bridgeport, maybe Hartford, etc.

I’d also say to keep metro land size in mind, as Rochester and Buffalo combined are smaller in terms of land than the Richmond metro or the Rochester and Buffalo CSA’s combined are smaller in terms of land than the Nashville metro. So, that may need to be considered as well.

Just so people have a frame of reference, the 6 county Rochester metro area is about 3240 square miles. Just take a look at metros with a similar population and their land area to see what I am referring to.

[Vincent_Adultman]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

I don't see it. Spokane and Boise are just too small in every conceivable way. Salt Lake seems to be one of those city that projects larger than it actually is, and besides population MSA, it is way ahead of Rochester...

In terms of the city proper, Spokane and Boise have a nearly identical population to Rochester, although Rochester's metro area is bigger (1.1 M vs 600-700K)

Oddly enough, Spokane and Rochester have downtown areas that look more similar than you'd expect:

Spokane: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6571...7i13312!8i6656

Rochester: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1577...7i13312!8i6656

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman

In terms of the city proper, Spokane and Boise have a nearly identical population to Rochester, although Rochester's metro area is bigger (1.1 M vs 600-700K)

Oddly enough, Spokane and Rochester have downtown areas that look more similar than you'd expect:

Spokane: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6571...7i13312!8i6656

Rochester: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1577...7i13312!8i6656

Rochester city proper is only 35.6 square miles or so with about 209,000 people. How would that compare to Spokane or other cities mentioned thus far?

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I’d say Grand Rapids, Buffalo, Birmingham, Omaha, Bridgeport, maybe Hartford, etc.

I’d also say to keep metro land size in mind, as Rochester and Buffalo combined are smaller in terms of land than the Richmond metro or the Rochester and Buffalo CSA’s combined are smaller in terms of land than the Nashville metro. So, that may need to be considered as well.

Just so people have a frame of reference, the 6 county Rochester metro area is about 3240 square miles. Just take a look at metros with a similar population and their land area to see what I am referring to.

So Grand Rapids Metro area is a bit more than 2600sq mi. I think from a metro area standpoint Rochester is about average in area.

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Rochester city proper is only 35.6 square miles or so with about 209,000 people. How would that compare to Spokane or other cities mentioned thus far?

Boise is 79 sq mi
Spokane is 59 sq mi
Rochester is 36 sq mi

While Boise and Spokane aren't huge in land area, it's still not an apples to apples comparison. One can never emphasize how meaningless using city pop as a comparison metric is.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by mjlo

So Grand Rapids Metro area is a bit more than 2600sq mi. I think from a metro area standpoint Rochester is about average in area.



Boise is 79 sq mi
Spokane is 59 sq mi
Rochester is 36 sq mi

While Boise and Spokane aren't huge in land area, it's still not an apples to apples comparison. One can never emphasize how meaningless using city pop as a comparison metric is.

I agree with that last statement, as I was curious if others consider how different cities are in that regard.

Also, Rochester has as many people in its urban area as those 2 western metro areas.

[grega94]

Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman

In terms of the city proper, Spokane and Boise have a nearly identical population to Rochester, although Rochester's metro area is bigger (1.1 M vs 600-700K)

Oddly enough, Spokane and Rochester have downtown areas that look more similar than you'd expect:

Spokane: https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6571...7i13312!8i6656

Rochester: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1577...7i13312!8i6656

Also both of them have their downtowns built right next to a large waterfall. However I guess spokane is a bit too small, even if you consider the CSA (which will soon become one MSA) with a population of 710,945. But I think they are close enough to warrant a comparison, similar to how Seattle and Boston are often compared even though Boston has like a million more people in the Metro area.

[g500]

1. Buffalo
2. Grand Rapids
3. Bridgeport
4. Springfield, MA
5. Dayton
6. Milwaukee+Green Bay, WI combine and then get chopped into two pieces= Buffalo+Rochester