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City Center to me is not like walking down 5th Ave or Michigan Avenue or Union Square. Its more self contained with parking underground for 1500 cars.
Also no matter how MDAllstar rags on Highland Park Village , it's beautiful, historic and has established itself as a highend shopping destination longer than anything on F and G streets in downtown DC.
City Center to me is not like walking down 5th Ave or Michigan Avenue or Union Square. Its more self contained with parking underground for 1500 cars.
Also no matter how MDAllstar rags on Highland Park Village , it's beautiful, historic and has established itself as a highend shopping destination longer than anything on F and G streets in downtown DC.
Never said a single negative thing about Highland Park. It is beautiful. Tyson’s, Lenox, and The Galleria are nice also. I just pointed out the difference between them and mixed use urban development. They fall into separate classifications. It’s all about preference.
As for City Center DC, all buildings in downtown DC have hundreds of parking spaces in underground garages. What we don’t have is suburban parking garages above ground and permanent surface parking lots that aren’t slated for development. Have you actually been to DC and seen how much parking is under buildings all over DC? You’re not really making any point by mentioning underground parking, that’s exactly where it should be. Not above ground whether in a garage or surface parking.
What southern city has a mixed use district? Even The Shops at Buckhead is single story retail in most of the development. Cities build mixed use development, not single use mall shopping centers.
You must not know know much about the Shops at Buckhead, as it is a mixed use development. It's a mix of dining, offices, residential and retail. It also blends into the existing street grid of Buckhead Village. It's caused an explosion of development with one to two blocks.
You must not know know much about the Shops at Buckhead, as it is a mixed use development. It's a mix of dining, offices, residential and retail. It also blends into the existing street grid of Buckhead Village. It's caused an explosion of development with one to two blocks.
Yes, it includes other uses, but the high-end retail is still not mixed in with those other uses in the same buildings. They’re still stand alone single story retail. There are only a few markets where those high-end brands are comfortable taking retail frontage under buildings. Mixed use buildings are very hard to finance and the numbers are hard to make work on pro forma’s. They only work in certain markets. Retailers look for very specific things when searching for new space.
Yes, it includes other uses, but the high-end retail is still not mixed in with those other uses in the same buildings. They’re still stand alone single story retail. There are only a few markets where those high-end brands are comfortable taking retail frontage under buildings. Mixed use buildings are very hard to finance and the numbers are hard to make work on pro forma’s. They only work in certain markets. Retailers look for very specific things when searching for new space.
And no, those particular two are not under buildings. You have clearly not been there, but are acting like you are completely familiar with it. You also keep moving the goal posts to boost D.C. (which wasn't a part of this discussion until you injected it) and minimize everyplace else that's been mentioned. Some of the retail and restaurants are under buildings. It is apparent that in your mind nothing is legit unless you validate it as so, and by your usual D.C. standards.
You also went on and on about these luxury retailers taking such a chance being under buildings. Do you not think the expensive custom buildouts of the stores you snagged in that streetview you posted didn't take a chance? They spent a ton of money to be in this development, just as the stores did in your over-boosted City Center.
You didn't push back this hard on Houston's River Oaks District which is basically the same design, by the very same San Diego developer. I wonder why that is...
And no, those particular two are not under buildings. You have clearly not been there, but are acting like you are completely familiar with it. You also keep moving the goal posts to boost D.C. (which wasn't a part of this discussion until you injected it) and minimize everyplace else that's been mentioned. Some of the retail and restaurants are under buildings. It is apparent that in your mind nothing is legit unless you validate it as so, and by your usual D.C. standards.
You also went on and on about these luxury retailers taking such a chance being under buildings. Do you not think the expensive custom buildouts of the stores you snagged in that streetview you posted didn't take a chance? They spent a ton of money to be in this development, just as the stores did in your over-boosted City Center.
You didn't push back this hard on Houston's River Oaks District which is basically the same design, by the very same San Diego developer. I wonder why that is...
Those two? How many high-end retailers are under buildings? Name them please?
What exactly are you trying to prove again? I don’t even know what you’re disagreeing with. I said all these developments are new urbanism shopping centers and that’s exactly what they are. It’s not downtown Atlanta style development is it?
Does being a shopping center diminish them in anyway? No, more people live in suburban style development than urban development and prefer it. You yourself say you like elbow room all the time. This is the kind of development you like so what is the problem?
Would building this development in the style of downtown Atlanta development make it any better? No, and I think the developers wanted it to be more human scale anyway like Rodeo drive etc. What is the problem?
As for retailers and what they prefer, they most always would rather be in a building by themselves or shopping mall with other retailers instead of in mixed use buildings. Why do you think there are so few mixed use buildings with those retailers?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 03-22-2018 at 12:58 AM..
What exactly are you trying to prove again? I don’t even know what you’re disagreeing with. I said all these developments are new urbanism shopping centers and that’s exactly what they are. It’s not downtown Atlanta style development is it? Does being a shopping center diminish them in anyway? No, more people live in the suburban style development than the city and prefer it. You yourself say you like elbow room all the time. This is the kind of development you like so what is the problem? Would building this development in the style of downtown Atlanta development make it any better? No, and I think the developers wanted it to be more human scale anyway like Rodeo drive etc. What is the problem?
It’s hard to see your point, it keeps shifting. What differentiates CityCenter besides it being downtown?
It’s the same singularly managed type of homogeneous -similarly built up environment, you are trying to hard to distance DC from the south it seems, and placing it with truly urban shopping Meccas like NY.
You are being way too dichotomous, I think DC is a good mixture of suburban-urban, and outdoor malls like CityCenter reflect that.
It’s hard to see your point, it keeps shifting. What differentiates CityCenter besides it being downtown?
It’s the same singularly managed type of homogeneous -similarly built up environment, you are trying to hard to distance DC from the south it seems, and placing it with truly urban shopping Meccas like NY.
You are being way too dichotomous, I think DC is a good mixture of suburban-urban, and outdoor malls like CityCenter reflect that.
The ONLY difference I am making is the development style. The mixed use buildings with first floor retail. That’s what City Center DC is. The others are not mixed use buildings with first floor retail. Nobody is going to walk through any place in DC proper and say this reminds me of Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas? Would you agree with that? That’s the only point I was making.
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