Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Shrinking Cities Since 1950--Which Have Gentrified Best?
St Louis 13 13.13%
Detroit 10 10.10%
Youngstown, OH 1 1.01%
Cleveland 18 18.18%
Gary, IN 2 2.02%
Pittsburgh 70 70.71%
Buffalo 7 7.07%
Niagra Falls, NY 1 1.01%
Flint, MI 0 0%
Scranton, PA 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:31 AM
 
93,281 posts, read 123,898,066 times
Reputation: 18258

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
In my very humble opinion, Boston is not a rustbelt city. Washington DC experienced similar population loss, is it a rustbelt city? A rustbelt city is one in which manufacturing was the largest component of the economy. Also, rustbelt cities in general, had massive extent of urban blight, white flight and current populations in which African-Americans comprised 45 to 85 % percent of the population (except Pittsburgh). Boston never had the extent of white flight as St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

Also, you overlooked the vast number of universities in the Boston area which also prevented it from declining so much, and differentiates itself from the "true" rustbelt cities
Not necessarily, as Pittsburgh and Buffalo are a couple of cities/areas that have their share of colleges/universities. There are other "Rust Belt" cities/areas where there is a major college/university or that have multiple colleges/universities as well. So, what may keep said areas from being worse than they are, are the institutions of higher learning. That in turn, could allow for such areas to bounce back as well, if they know how to leverage the presence of those institutions properly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
7,010 posts, read 11,972,699 times
Reputation: 5813
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
In my very humble opinion, Boston is not a rustbelt city. Washington DC experienced similar population loss, is it a rustbelt city? A rustbelt city is one in which manufacturing was the largest component of the economy. Also, rustbelt cities in general, had massive extent of urban blight, white flight and current populations in which African-Americans comprised 45 to 85 % percent of the population (except Pittsburgh). Boston never had the extent of white flight as St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

Also, you overlooked the vast number of universities in the Boston area which also prevented it from declining so much, and differentiates itself from the "true" rustbelt cities

Manufacturing has to have been the largest component of the economy? Is not considered a rust belt city by that metric? It certainly has a lot of rust belt characteristics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
7,010 posts, read 11,972,699 times
Reputation: 5813
Some of these "cities" were never that large to begin with, and shouldn't even be included in the same grouping. I know you're including them for percentage based losses, but Flint, Gary, and Niagra Falls really have no place on this list, competing against cities over 5 times their size.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:42 AM
 
8,090 posts, read 6,960,223 times
Reputation: 9226
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
In my very humble opinion, Boston is not a rustbelt city. Washington DC experienced similar population loss, is it a rustbelt city? A rustbelt city is one in which manufacturing was the largest component of the economy. Also, rustbelt cities in general, had massive extent of urban blight, white flight and current populations in which African-Americans comprised 45 to 85 % percent of the population (except Pittsburgh). Boston never had the extent of white flight as St. Louis, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

Also, you overlooked the vast number of universities in the Boston area which also prevented it from declining so much, and differentiates itself from the "true" rustbelt cities
You touched upon something that I’ve discussed on this forum at length: the term rust belt is often racially loaded. Whether intentional or not, people don’t like to describe Rust Belt to cities without large black populations. Boston, and New England as a whole underwent massive deindustrialization just like the Midwest and interior Northeast. New England’s manufacturing industry was mostly textile. Massive reduction in US textiles, and decreased shipping in Boston Harbor led to dramatic population loss. DC, on the hand, was never heavily industrialized.

Yes, Boston’s universities made the city more resilient, as evidenced by its speedy recovery, but it certainly experienced Rust Belt decline. There are actually a lot of parallels between Pittsburgh and Boston: neither experienced debilitating white flight, and their universities help to bouy them, the difference being that Pittsburgh was far more industrial than Boston ever was, and lacked the regional importance to avoid collapse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:50 AM
 
1,748 posts, read 2,579,676 times
Reputation: 2531
If Boston is considered a rust belt city, then so too would New York City. It had virtually nothing but manufacturing and trade jobs until the 40s or 50s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 07:52 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 4,288,838 times
Reputation: 3902
Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The rest still have a lot of work to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 08:37 AM
 
8,090 posts, read 6,960,223 times
Reputation: 9226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBideon View Post
If Boston is considered a rust belt city, then so too would New York City. It had virtually nothing but manufacturing and trade jobs until the 40s or 50s.
New York never saw massive population loss
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 08:42 AM
 
93,281 posts, read 123,898,066 times
Reputation: 18258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The rest still have a lot of work to do.
Buffalo and Detroit has put in some work, but I those 2 are ahead of the others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,353 posts, read 17,022,283 times
Reputation: 12406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
Pittsburgh and Cleveland. The rest still have a lot of work to do.
IMHO the ranking is something like this:

Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Everywhere else

I'm basing this on the number census tracts with middle-class ($50,000+) household income. Pittsburgh far and away wins this - it's the only city with genuinely rich areas within city limits. St. Louis has a large number of individual neighborhoods in the south/west which are middle class. Buffalo has a couple fanning north from Allentown. Cleveland has a few scattered pockets, most of which are on the city's western fringes and not actually urban. Detroit still has virtually none.

The rest of the cities on this list have no gentrification worth speaking of. Okay, Gary has Miller Beach, but it's basically a suburban neighborhood totally cut off from the rest of the city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2018, 09:56 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,431,928 times
Reputation: 7217
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
IMHO the ranking is something like this:

Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Buffalo
Cleveland
Detroit
Everywhere else

I'm basing this on the number census tracts with middle-class ($50,000+) household income. Pittsburgh far and away wins this - it's the only city with genuinely rich areas within city limits. St. Louis has a large number of individual neighborhoods in the south/west which are middle class. Buffalo has a couple fanning north from Allentown. Cleveland has a few scattered pockets, most of which are on the city's western fringesand not actually urban. Detroit still has virtually none.

The rest of the cities on this list have no gentrification worth speaking of. Okay, Gary has Miller Beach, but it's basically a suburban neighborhood totally cut off from the rest of the city.
There isn't any part of the City of Cleveland proper that isn't urban.

Yes, there are some large lots and small mansion-like homes in the Edgewater neighborhood, but these are not rural estates (e.g., Hunting Valley), and a few blocks away are definitely urban areas with good mass transit, such as Detroit Ave.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/De...!4d-81.7679099

City-data says that the population density of the Edgewater neighborhood, with some significant multi-story apartment/condo complexes is over 18,000/square mile!!!

https://www.city-data.com/neighborhoo...veland-OH.html

Lowering Cleveland's population density are significant cultural/park/medical acreage (certainly very urban in an excellent way) in the Greater University Circle area and hollowed out neighborhoods that haven't experienced gentrification or more significant economic recovery.

Cleveland's population density still is over 5,100/square mile. Some suburbs (e.g., Mentor, OH) are considered urban, despite population densities of less than 2,000/square mile (massive commercial/industrial acreage and some significant natural areas). Even the Kamm's Corner neighborhood of Cleveland has a population density of over 5,000, and it may be considered the most "suburban" of neighborhoods in Cleveland proper.

Admittedly, some Cleveland suburbs, such as Lakewood or Cleveland Hts., have greater population densities than Cleveland proper, often due to significant multi-story (high-rise in Lakewood's Gold Coast) apartment/condo districts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamm%27s_Corners

Last edited by WRnative; 06-07-2018 at 10:09 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S. > City vs. City
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top