Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think all three are on the same level. I lumped in CalTrain with BART because, though technically CalTrai. Is commuter rail, it has heavy ridership and very frequent trains. Once electrification is complete in 2022, trains will come every ten minutes.
I think all three are on the same level. I lumped in CalTrain with BART because, though technically CalTrai. Is commuter rail, it has heavy ridership and very frequent trains. Once electrification is complete in 2022, trains will come every ten minutes.
This is a sweep for BART/Caltrain. Denver and Dallas have the transit networks, but there isn't as much TOD in those areas. Also, AC Transit does a great job feeding into BART.
This is not even close, especially if you include Muni Light Rail, which is integrated with BART in SF - BART/Caltrain/Muni is in a different tier in terms of ridership, coverage, station location, pretty much everything.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,749 posts, read 23,822,981 times
Reputation: 14665
Denver's RTD rail has done well in its buildout of its rail system. Its biggest flaw that is it's very park and ride with very little intra-urban rail within the city of Denver. It's fine if you want to commute in from DTC, Douglas County burbs, or Lakewood if you happen work in downtown or want to catch a ball game. But busy corridors like Colfax, Broadway, and Colorado Blvd and many neighborhoods within the city of Denver could really use some rail service and would likely increase ridership on the existing lines to the suburbs.
DART rail in Dallas has an impressive build-out that hits a lot of nodes. I think the problem is a lot of Dallas and the stations they've built aren't all that conducive to walking and are waiting for more TOD construction to happen.
As others have stated, BART is obviously leagues above RTD and DART
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 09-28-2018 at 08:24 PM..
As others have stated, BART is obviously leagues above RTD and DART
Not to mention that BART is a full-blown "heavy" rapid transit system while the other two are what I call "light metro" systems. They have a great deal of rapid transit character once out of the downtown (where they operate like circulators on surface streets) but use smaller railcars with less carrying capacity.
Dallas, however, is about to build a downtown subway. That will put it in league with Seattle and Pittsburgh in having full-blown (nearly so, in Pittsburgh's case) light metro systems (one of Pittsburgh's light rail lines operates in a city street in the southern part of the city).
I know Bart is heavy rail while the other systems are light rail, but let's forget about that for a moment. Which system has the greatest coverage? The most convenience, the most frequent trains, the fastest speed, etc?
BART also has many of the same issues Denver and Dallas do. BART relies heavily on park and ride commuters. BART also serves the suburbs much more than it does San Francisco itself. Take Muni Metro out of the picture. It's way too slow and is more like a bus on rails than anything.
Even during weekdays, during off peak hours on BART there will be a train only every ten minutes, at best. This may not even be as frequent as what Dallas has.
Also, Dallas light rail looks far cleaner than the dingy, overcrowded, crime ridden BART. Ditto for Denver.
I know Bart is heavy rail while the other systems are light rail, but let's forget about that for a moment. Which system has the greatest coverage? The most convenience, the most frequent trains, the fastest speed, etc?
BART also has many of the same issues Denver and Dallas do. BART relies heavily on park and ride commuters. BART also serves the suburbs much more than it does San Francisco itself. Take Muni Metro out of the picture. It's way too slow and is more like a bus on rails than anything.
Even during weekdays, during off peak hours on BART there will be a train only every ten minutes, at best. This may not even be as frequent as what Dallas has.
Also, Dallas light rail looks far cleaner than the dingy, overcrowded, crime ridden BART. Ditto for Denver.
In terms of cleanliness, crime, and maintenance issues you’re absolutely right that RTD and DART are better. However, BART/MUNI Light Rail/Caltrain have a combined ridership of about 700K, while DART is 100K and Denver has about 80K. It’s a different scale. Bay Area rail has enough issues with stop spacing, coverage, and integration that it’s below systems in cities like DC, Boston, and Chicago. However, in my opinion, it’s in a different league than DART and RTD.
I know Bart is heavy rail while the other systems are light rail, but let's forget about that for a moment. Which system has the greatest coverage? The most convenience, the most frequent trains, the fastest speed, etc?
BART also has many of the same issues Denver and Dallas do. BART relies heavily on park and ride commuters. BART also serves the suburbs much more than it does San Francisco itself. Take Muni Metro out of the picture. It's way too slow and is more like a bus on rails than anything.
Even during weekdays, during off peak hours on BART there will be a train only every ten minutes, at best. This may not even be as frequent as what Dallas has.
Also, Dallas light rail looks far cleaner than the dingy, overcrowded, crime ridden BART. Ditto for Denver.
10-minute off-peak midday intervals?
I don't know what US rail transit systems you've ridden, but that's actually a pretty decent midday/evening headway. If DART runs them more frequently, bully for them, but I doubt it does.
Now, I know there are places where trains run more often midday, for I live in one: Market-Frankford Line trains run every six minutes midday. They run every 10 to 12, however, after about 7:30 p.m. That line, however, carries more passengers every day (~220,000) than both light metros we're talking about here combined, and it's bursting at the seams in terms of passenger traffic.
In terms of cleanliness, crime, and maintenance issues you’re absolutely right that RTD and DART are better. However, BART/MUNI Light Rail/Caltrain have a combined ridership of about 700K, while DART is 100K and Denver has about 80K. It’s a different scale. Bay Area rail has enough issues with stop spacing, coverage, and integration that it’s below systems in cities like DC, Boston, and Chicago. However, in my opinion, it’s in a different league than DART and RTD.
Forget about ridership, too. What we're talking about is experience for the average rider. Looks like DART and RTD are, relative to Dallas (excluding Fort Worth) and Denver, just as widespread in coverage as BART + CalTrain are relative to SF Bay Area.
Oh, and side note, please include the Denver RT light rail system PLUS the RTD commuter rail (because the commuter rail looks like a heavy-duty, fully electrified line that serves the airport, among other places).
Last edited by MrJester; 09-29-2018 at 12:09 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
