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Minneapolis is being undersold here because of a bias against the skyway system, it seems. I wonder how many posters actually have used the skyways in Minneapolis and seen how useful and lively (not to mention, stunningly clean) they are and how they're used as part of everyday life by the downtown population, which, though I don't have data for this, seems bigger in terms of raw number of people downtown on weekdays than a lot of the cities being discussed.
It seems like almost all of the top 25-30 cities have been mentioned at least once on this thread, so it doesn't seem right to dismiss Minneapolis outright. Their downtown really has it all -- strong corporate presence, nice natural setting above St. Anthony Falls, MLB/NFL/NBA venues, light rail, nightlife (pretty much weekends only, but still), and residential population. I think if you had a bias against the skyways and how they take some of the street-level life away, you would get over it pretty quickly if you spent significant time in downtown Minneapolis.
Let me put it this way, someone said downtown Milwaukee is underrated, and I agree with that, even though I'm lukewarm on that city as a whole. Ask people around the Upper Midwest which city has a better downtown, Milwaukee or Minneapolis, and I'd expect a significant majority to say Minneapolis.
I like downtown Milwaukee a lot. I include part or all of the lower East Side which is very much like Chicago's Lincoln Park. And the beauty and extent of their river walk system is unmatched. And of course Milwaukee shares the beautiful Lake Michigan shoreline with its Big Shoulders/Windy City neighborhood down the coast. Neighborhood-wise, Milwaukee's just above average in my mind -- I do like suburban Shorewood and, of course, Brady Ave...
Just curious where those downtowns are "pretty set in stone" other than, in perhaps, your mind.
The top 8 aren't necessarily set in stone and the order within those eight is debatable too.
You'd have a hard time making a solid case, though, that any city outside those eight (NYC, Chicago, SF, Philly, Boston, DC, LA, Seattle) is better than any of those eight, all factors considered.
Minneapolis is being undersold here because of a bias against the skyway system, it seems. I wonder how many posters actually have used the skyways in Minneapolis and seen how useful and lively (not to mention, stunningly clean) they are and how they're used as part of everyday life by the downtown population, which, though I don't have data for this, seems bigger in terms of raw number of people downtown on weekdays than a lot of the cities being discussed.
It seems like almost all of the top 25-30 cities have been mentioned at least once on this thread, so it doesn't seem right to dismiss Minneapolis outright. Their downtown really has it all -- strong corporate presence, nice natural setting above St. Anthony Falls, MLB/NFL/NBA venues, light rail, nightlife (pretty much weekends only, but still), and residential population. I think if you had a bias against the skyways and how they take some of the street-level life away, you would get over it pretty quickly if you spent significant time in downtown Minneapolis.
Let me put it this way, someone said downtown Milwaukee is underrated, and I agree with that, even though I'm lukewarm on that city as a whole. Ask people around the Upper Midwest which city has a better downtown, Milwaukee or Minneapolis, and I'd expect a significant majority to say Minneapolis.
Probably true, but if you've spent significant time in both, I would think you would choose Milwaukee. Milwaukee's downtown has a river that runs through it, and a lake that looks like an ocean. Minneapolis can't compete with that. Milwaukee's downtown is a pretty big construction zone, and has been for a while...that's only making it better.
Dallas, Houston, San Antonio , & Austin all have good d'towns each with some unique qualities. Your bias is obvious.
They just empty out drastically at the end of the work day and are lacking in entertainment and shopping options. Well San Antonio has the best in terms of attractions downtown.
I guess if you combine the residents and proximity to a large University that Austin has with the attractions of San Antonio and Fort Worth with the employment and buildings in Houston then you would have a great downtown.
All four are making great strides.
San Antonio has been working on improving transportation.
Austin and Houston residential Innitiatives have worked wonders
Dallas has been working on all fronts.
The problem with Texas is that while other states put all their resources behind one or two cities, Texas developed multiple simultaneously.
The capital was moved 6 times.
Houston, Galveston, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas and even Fort Worth all claimed the title of biggest city.
Texas also was slow to realize the power of good urban universities. While most States concentrated schools in or near the big cities, Texas opted for Waco, Prarie View, College Station, San Marcos, Georgetown, Huntsville....
I think if Houston had embraced preservation sooner, and the capital was retained and a university the size of UT or A&M was originally developed adjacent to downtown then Houstons downtown would not be so bad.
Galveston, despite hurricanes, would have run out of land anyway so I don't buy the whole if it wasn't for the hurricane excuse. Galveston was losing steam before the hurricane.
They just empty out drastically at the end of the work day and are lacking in entertainment and shopping options. Well San Antonio has the best in terms of attractions downtown.
I guess if you combine the residents and proximity to a large University that Austin has with the attractions of San Antonio and Fort Worth with the employment and buildings in Houston then you would have a great downtown.
All four are making great strides.
San Antonio has been working on improving transportation.
Austin and Houston residential Innitiatives have worked wonders
Dallas has been working on all fronts.
The problem with Texas is that while other states put all their resources behind one or two cities, Texas developed multiple simultaneously.
The capital was moved 6 times.
Houston, Galveston, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas and even Fort Worth all claimed the title of biggest city.
Texas also was slow to realize the power of good urban universities. While most States concentrated schools in or near the big cities, Texas opted for Waco, Prarie View, College Station, San Marcos, Georgetown, Huntsville....
I think if Houston had embraced preservation sooner, and the capital was retained and a university the size of UT or A&M was originally developed adjacent to downtown then Houstons downtown would not be so bad.
Galveston, despite hurricanes, would have run out of land anyway so I don't buy the whole if it wasn't for the hurricane excuse. Galveston was losing steam before the hurricane.
These are all great points, but I would argue that they're far enough apart to be able to maintain fairly vibrant Downtowns. Downtown Dallas to Downtown Houston is 4 hours, so they shouldn't impact each other at all. Most of the Downtown woes, especially for Dallas & Houston, was that they boomed during a lousy time in American history for urban planning -- 50s-80s.
Minneapolis downtown is not a top downtown. There are some beautiful buildings if you look up, but at street level, it's sorely lacking.
Sounds like you are judging solely on architecture. Here's the OP's criteria:
"But criteria is
1) Economic vitality (how important is the Downtown to the metro area)
2) Retail
3) Dining
4) Entertainment (theatres, festivals, Arena events)
5) Transit
6)Overall Vibrancy"
Not sure it's #9, but downtown Mpls meets these criteria quite well.
Probably true, but if you've spent significant time in both, I would think you would choose Milwaukee. Milwaukee's downtown has a river that runs through it, and a lake that looks like an ocean. Minneapolis can't compete with that. Milwaukee's downtown is a pretty big construction zone, and has been for a while...that's only making it better.
Again, apply the OP's criteria, not your own.
"But criteria is
1) Economic vitality (how important is the Downtown to the metro area)
2) Retail
3) Dining
4) Entertainment (theatres, festivals, Arena events)
5) Transit
6)Overall Vibrancy"
"But criteria is
1) Economic vitality (how important is the Downtown to the metro area)
2) Retail
3) Dining
4) Entertainment (theatres, festivals, Arena events)
5) Transit
6)Overall Vibrancy"
To the criteria...downtown is very important to the metro area. Retail isn't the best, but the adjoining Third Ward has a pretty vital retail scene....by adjoining, I mean a block away. Dining...excellent. Entertainment...many, many festivals (Summerfest being the biggest, drawing over 800,000 people this year). Also, Harley Davidson is based in Milwaukee, and every year, there is an event that draws thousands, and this year...tens of thousands from around the world. A big part of their events are held downtown. Arena...the new Milwaukee Bucks arena has just been completed, and is downtown. Vibrancy, absolutely.
So, Milwaukee's downtown is pretty amazing. I don't know how it compares to a lot of others, but it certainly fits the criteria. Just ask the numerous people from Chicago, who have purchased condos in the Third Ward, and come up for week-ends...they're loving it.
Portland, San Diego, maybe Denver, maybe Minneapolis, and stretch it a bit to pick up Milwaukee.
Definitely not Baltimore, unless you're hoping to get shot.
Honestly, Milwaukee's downtown has it over Minneapolis...big time.
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