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So are walkability, vibrant streets, interesting spots, etc.
I have a ton of family there, and it's a sensory depravation zone. I want to like Charlotte, but it's basically like someone took Tyson's Corner and tried to label it some kind of "center city".
Charlotte's actual center will always be the South Park Mall.
Gimme a break. We all know Uptown Charlotte isn't filled with 500-year old buildings but it's entirely walkable and vibrant with plenty to do and see. Too bad you can't see that since it's not the most historic place on earth.
I lived in Charlotte area for a few months, so I will share my views on CHarlotte. I have yet to spend any time in Atlanta or Nashville. Uptown Charlotte probably qualified as the most boring downtown I have ever been in any city. Even downtown Boise has way more going on. Although, in Charlotte's defense , downtown Boise is the only thing going on in the entire Boise metro. However, Charlotte being three times the size you would think differently. The problem with Charlotte as a whole is the city is like an overgrown suburb and all the neighborhoods are very disconnected. Charlotte's downtown (aka uptown) seemed to be a majority of office and government buildings, residential homes with a few businesses intermixed. What makes it so bad is that you literally have to walk 5 or 6 blocks apart to go from one business to the next. It is not like downtown Portland or Seattle where the downtown has dedicated strips of entertainment areas that host clubs, coffeeshops, bars , restaurants, etc. For example, in Seattle you have 1st Avenue and Portland you have a long strip of places on 6th and 13th ave, but also every street has its strip of entertainment type businesses, shops, bars and restaurants. Not to mention Seattle has Pioneer Square and Portland has Pioneer Plaza, which are huge shopping centers right in the downtown. In Charlotte you just have office buildings and office buildings then there is a restaurant then another 6 blocks there is a bar. You literally have to keep getting back in your car to go from one place to the next.
It pretty much describes Charlotte as a whole. The only plus I will give to Uptown Charlotte is it was very clean compared to what I am use to in Seattle or Portland. But, that probably is also the product of having a downtown that has little to do in the way of entertainment. In addition, there is like only a couple of food trucks in all of downtown Charlotte and the gyro food truck has real crappy tasting falafel/gyros. Whereas in downtown Portland, you have 100s of food trucks and Seattle also now is having more food trucks, in addition to Pike Place Market. How can a downtown even be considered a real downtown if there isn't food trucks and street merchants all over the place? That to me is what makes a downtown "REAL". Charlotte had none of this.
The closest thing to an entertainment or downtown like atmosphere you could get in Charlotte is the NODA and it is literally just a couple blocks. Downtown Ashland, Oregon (a town of like 20,000 people), my home town BTW, had more businesses in its downtown than even what the Noda has.
After what I read about Atlanta, it appears it has like multiple downtown like areas and probably is the most thriving of the three.
On most of your points I totally disagree with you. I moved to the area last year from New Englamd and I give Charlotte (very) high marks for: It's clean. It's growing (unlike most northern cities). The weather is great. It seems to be forward moving. A TON of infill taking place in and around uptown. Pro sports. Enough things to do. Great location (love the Southeast and what it offers!)
The "minorities" are doing well here. Strong African-American middle class! (something you rarely see in the Northwest or Northeast). Awesome theme park. Whitewater center is great. Great shopping. The metro is still affordable (but I heard that's changing). It green and pretty with all the tree cover in the neighborhoods. I will stop there but could keep on going. Not many ghetto or rundown areas. People are generally friendly.
It is VERY walkable downtown/Uptown. With a lot of green parks and open spaces.
Cons are: Still a little too suburban and sprawly. Gets hot and humid during the summer, which I will need to adapt to. Crime is a little too high.
BTW, you could not pay me to live in Portland (drug, hippie and haven and uncontrolled homelessness ), or Ashland (where?)
Last edited by Timothy123; 03-02-2019 at 08:32 PM..
I might be new to living in the Charlotte area, but I am somewhat familiar with it. I will tell guys something truthful. I travel overseas a lot for my job, and since I've been here I have had visitors from at least three countries come to me here for workshops. They ALL love Charlotte!! They actually like Charlotte and what it is and what it looks like more so than several much larger cities (which I will not dare name so as not to start a war).
What these die-hard traditional urbanist worship on C-D, I had truly found that many foreigners love Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville type of Cities much more so than the old, run down, decaying stuff they see when they visit other place. They have enough of that type of setting back home. They do love to visit NYC as well because they tell me they can actually see the places they have only seen in the movies and TV, and can identify with the areas.
Charlotte, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of! Or to envy any other place. Very beautiful city.
Last edited by Timothy123; 03-02-2019 at 08:32 PM..
That would be an admirable feat indeed, considering that no new heavy rail systems have been built for 50 years in the US.
Meant to say LIGHT rail. You get the idea. Actual transit. Nashville has none. The bus system is a pathetic joke. Charlotte and Atlanta are still well above Nashville.
As much as the Nashville boosters hate to hear it, ATL is top tier, Charlotte is the tier below, and Nashville is still a third tier city nationally. I really don't think it obliterates any metro under 2 million. It's funny Nashville wants to be compared to cities 3 times its size but scoffs at being compared to cities that are not even close to twice as big as, nor does it feel that way.
Charlotte has been established as a major city since the 1980s. Nashville has come into its own in the last 5 years. I have no problems comparing Nashville and Charlotte, but ATL is a MAJOR stretch!
That said, Nashville looks, feels, acts like a smaller town than Charlotte...because it is.
Meant to say LIGHT rail. You get the idea. Actual transit. Nashville has none. The bus system is a pathetic joke. Charlotte and Atlanta are still well above Nashville.
As much as the Nashville boosters hate to hear it, ATL is top tier, Charlotte is the tier below, and Nashville is still a third tier city nationally. I really don't think it obliterates any metro under 2 million. It's funny Nashville wants to be compared to cities 3 times its size but scoffs at being compared to cities that are not even close to twice as big as, nor does it feel that way.
Charlotte has been established as a major city since the 1980s. Nashville has come into its own in the last 5 years. I have no problems comparing Nashville and Charlotte, but ATL is a MAJOR stretch!
That said, Nashville looks, feels, acts like a smaller town than Charlotte...because it is.
Actually Nashville is about the same size as Charlotte. As well, Nashville's economy is booming and I wouldn't be surprised if its economy surpasses Charlotte in the near future. Also, I kind of cannot believe that Charlotte has more int he way of entertainment options than Nashville. I will be going to Nashville this Spring or Summer and possibly relocating there. The IT market in Nashville has already pretty much surpassed Charlotte and Amazon is going to be opening up a new fairly large sized campus and Oracle is planning on opening up another. Charlotte is mostly stuck on banking jobs and is pretty one dimensional, where as Nashville seems to be expanding into various industries. Nashville was pretty much a Southern rust belt city that is being renovated and gentrified.
Neither city can obviously compare to Atlanta which is a major urban center in the USA.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 03-02-2019 at 08:16 PM..
Charlotte, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of! Or to envy any other place.
You are right.
I hate some city comparisons. People will go to city A and walk 2 blocks. Go to city B and drive around for 2 hours and claim to be experts on both places.
I personally don't look at entertainment districts. I judge a downtown livability by public transportation accessibility, shopping options like City Target or Nordstrom Racks type of stores. Grocery stores are another thing to look at.
Most cities including places like Chicago do not have entertainment districts in their DT area. Night life is very limited in many downtown areas. In the case of Nashville, their premier night life district is downtown. There is nothing wrong with that. The city is set up different from Atlanta which is different from Charlotte. Entertainment districts can be a good thing to have at the city's front door and shows well but the true QOL is in other amenities especially when it comes to urban lifestyle options.
I give this one to Atlanta. There is just so much more to offer and more big city things. Charlotte is a distant 2nd. Not that Charlotte is a bad place but it isn't on Atlanta level. Nashville has not had the chance to catch up yet. It takes time for somethings to happen. Nashville is not there yet.
Charlotte is mostly stuck on banking jobs and is pretty one dimensional, where as Nashville seems to be expanding into various industries.
Yeah you're right but stuff is changing rapidly in Charlotte. Honeywell F100, Lending tree, AvidXchange, Red Ventures, Passport and so much more going on.
I never said Charlotte was a bad city.. I just found it boring.. But, I am glad to know there are some secret entertainment districts that you can find once you become an educated local. I guess I kind of think of Charlotte as a treasure hunt city and as a resident, you are an explorer on a pirate ship searching for the booty. The longer I lived there the more I discovered little hidden gems, but they were all distributed all over the place. It took a lot of searching. I searched around and around, but the town seem to shut down early and I never could figure out where any one place was. As well, many of the bars were just dead on the weekdays. Denver is kind of similar there. Pretty sleepy city. Portland and Seattle the bars could be packed all week, depending on the neighborhood. I have a feeling Nashville (Nash Vegas) has an even more lively entertainment area and the downtown is even more hopping, being it is such a huge tourist and music destination. Music and booze just seems to keep a city hopping.
I actually still kind of like Charlotte. It shocked me though as I realized I couldn't afford to live there. The city is even more expensive than Denver now and probably more expensive than Nashville if you include state income tax into the mix. It doesn't feel like a Southern city, but rather feels more like a city that belongs in New Jersey or something, yet still have some of its Southern roots. I was surprised by how successful the African American community was there and actually felt the African American community helped kept up a lot of the traditional Southern roots of the city. It was the most integrated city I ever lived in and was shocked at how all races intermixed. Ironically, when I was in Seattle, the land that "Celebrates Diversity", it was the most segregated and polarizing place I ever lived and pretty homogeneous environment.
Nonetheless, I found both Seattle and Portland to have a lot more entertainment and you didn't have to be an educated local to figure out where the large strip of nightlife, shopping, bars, restaurants would be. In Charlotte, it was always an adventure, because each neighborhood seemed to be a mix of urban, residential and industrial all in one.
I appreciate Mutiny and others though sharing where the strip of bars and entertainment venues are in Uptown. Next time I am in Charlotte I will have to check out these areas and regret that I never was able to find them for the short time I lived there.
As far as beauty, Charlotte is a much more beautiful city than many. Denver is probably the ugliest city from a scenery perspective I ever lived and has the most depressing parks. The only river that runs through the city (Colorado River) is polluted, ugly and mostly a homeless encampment. There is no nice parks are anything where the river runs, but rather smelly industrial complexes.
One thing I will say about Charlotte is it had some of the most beautiful women of any city I have ever been. You guys are blessed having so many pretty babes walking around In addition to being attractive, the women there were also friendly, unlike here in Denver, Seattle or Portland.
Midtown Atlanta is anchored by an outdoor mall with piped in music. It's about as urban as the Mall at Paramus. Uptown Charlotte is a ghost town at night, and I want to go to bed just thinking about how sleepy it is. Nashville blows them both away.
Are you talking about Atlantic Station? It's a large shopping and residential district on the far edge of Midtown. Not sure how having such a retail-heavy, pedestrian-friendly area with restaurants, bars/lounges, and grocery stores bordered by high-rise office and residential towers takes away from its urbanity, but whatever.
The heart of Midtown is along the two Peachtree streets, and it's every bit as lively as Downtown Nashville is. Both places do quite well in that department, IMO. I prefer Atlanta, but I can see why some would prefer Nashville.
Are you talking about Atlantic Station? It's a large shopping and residential district on the far edge of Midtown. Not sure how having such a retail-heavy, pedestrian-friendly area with restaurants, bars/lounges, and grocery stores bordered by high-rise office and residential towers takes away from its urbanity, but whatever.
The heart of Midtown is along the two Peachtree streets, and it's every bit as lively as Downtown Nashville is. Both places do quite well in that department, IMO. I prefer Atlanta, but I can see why some would prefer Nashville.
I prefer Midtown to downtown Atlanta, except for when I attend concerts at The Tabernacle. What makes Atlanta the winner for me is the availability of affordable, easy to find parking spaces. I can pay ahead, instead of scraping for change like in Nashville. It is also not as busy as Nashville, so even in heavy traffic I can slip in and out with the dedicated HOV lanes/ramps. Midtown has shopping that Nashville does not have. Hotels, nice hotels are also more affordable compared to Nashville. Nashville is under heavy construction right now, so when all is said and done I may have a different opinion in the future, but for now Atlanta wins.
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In addition to being attractive, the women there were also friendly, unlike here in Denver, Seattle or Portland.
