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Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,542,189 times
Reputation: 6677
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Allow me to bore you with my life story, as an ex NY’er who moved to CA and lived there his entire adult life up until 2 years ago and then moved back East. Currently retired and living in Brickell (Miami).
Born and raised on Long Island. Got my first taste of CA in 1976 when I got a head start on my college education by taking a summer course at UCLA after my junior year of high school. Decided I wanted to move to CA first and foremost because of the weather—not because of energy level, space, or anything else.
Accepted my first job following grad school with a SF based company. Lived there 3 years in the mid 80’s. My favorite period of my 33 year stint in CA. Got along best with the people here, as SF—like NY—is a classy, cosmopolitan, sophisticated city and the people were mostly down to earth.
Fast forward to SoCal, where I spent the next 17 years in OC and then 13 in San Diego. OC, quite the contrast from SF, was a cookie cutter collection of master planned communities that had me heading up to LA to socialize on weekends (was required to work out of an office in OC, otherwise would have moved to Westside of LA)..when I was given the opportunity to work from home, I chose to relocate to downtown San Diego figuring it would develop into the next great warm weather urban core. First few years were great until I outgrew the area and realized, in spite of some growth, it would never become a sophisticated, cosmopolitan city. Hence, my move to Brickell which is what I had envisioned SD might become but never did and most likely never will. Did not have any desire to return to a suburban lifestyle.
To repeat, I originally moved out to CA for the weather. Met nice professional types in SF. Initially enjoyed the less competitiveness of SoCal and individual freedom to do what you want without anyone caring, only to long for a return to the East Coast lifestyle complete with faster pace, more vibrant nightlife (talking great restaurants and nice bars with professionals—not clubs), comraderie and less PC/more directness of the people, diverse/international flavor, and extremely walkable/compact and fulfilling, urban core with warm weather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431
None of my friends in NYC would ever move to LA because it's too suburban and spread out. None of my friends born and raised in NJ who still live there and refuse to take public transit can fathom why anyone would leave LA ever. Every time someone asks where I'm from, the Jersey crowd says something like omg I can't believe you'd ever leave I want to live there and the NYC crowd says something like oh I've been there a few times cool place couldn't live there too spread out and not city enough for me. The NJ crowd likes LA for being suburban but still big city and they won't have to plow their driveway ever. They like that they can drive all over and they don't want to be surrounded by skyscrapers and tons of people and ride subways. That's in my experience.
Those moving from NYC to SF enjoy a bit more urban lifestyle than those moving to LA, but they still don't like how busy and crowded NYC is.
Last edited by elchevere; 12-28-2018 at 08:43 AM..
Allow me to bore you with my life story, as an ex NY’er who moved to CA and lived there his entire adult life up until 2 years ago and then moved back East. Currently retired and living in Brickell (Miami).
Born and raised on Long Island. Got my first taste of CA in 1976 when I got a head start on my college education by taking a summer course at UCLA after my junior year of high school. Decided I wanted to move to CA first and foremost because of the weather—not because of energy level, space, or anything else.
Accepted my first job following grad school with a SF based company. Lived there 3 years in the mid 80’s. My favorite period of my 33 year stint in CA. Got along best with the people here, as SF—like NY—is a classy, cosmopolitan, sophisticated city and the people were mostly down to earth.
Fast forward to SoCal, where I spent the next 17 years in OC and then 13 in San Diego. OC, quite the contrast from SF, was a cookie cutter collection of master planned communities that had me heading up to LA to socialize on weekends (was required to work out of an office in OC, otherwise would have moved to Westside of LA)..when I was given the opportunity to work from home, I chose to relocate to downtown San Diego figuring it would develop into the next great warm weather urban core. First few years were great until I outgrew the area and realized, in spite of some growth, it would never become a sophisticated, cosmopolitan city. Hence, my move to Brickell which is what I had envisioned SD might become but never did and most likely never will. Did not have any desire to return to a suburban lifestyle.
To repeat, I originally moved out to CA for the weather. Met nice professional types in SF. Initially enjoyed the less competitiveness of SoCal and individual freedom to do what you want without anyone caring, only to long for a return to the East Coast lifestyle complete with faster pace, more vibrant nightlife (talking great restaurants and nice bars with professionals—not clubs), comraderie and less PC/more directness of the people, diverse/international flavor, and extremely walkable/compact and fulfilling, urban core with warm weather.
I agree with you 100% about OC and San Diego but CA is so big and that's just a fraction of what it offers. Also, I do not see Miami or any major city in Florida for that matter as being sophisticated or cosmopolitan. The strong Cuban cultural presence is interesting but other than that I found Miami to have sort of a vapid, anti-intellectual vibe with a notable absence of culture. And despite being compact I didn't find it to be pedestrian-friendly at all, save for a few specific areas.
CA, on the other hand, has San Francisco, Oakland/Berkeley, and the West Side of LA, which are large, urban, highly educated, sophisticated, and cosmopolitan areas. You also have what many would consider to be more sophisticated weekend destinations, like Napa/Sonoma, Monterey, and Lake Tahoe.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,542,189 times
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Brickell, where I live, is quite pedestrian friendly (though one has to watch out for the crappy drivers) and is an international financial center along with home to medical professionals who work at one of many nearby hospitals/medical centers....while not an educational center, there are a lot of cultural events (Art Basel, Ultra, SoBe Wine & Food Festival, boat shows, Tennis Opens, Formula 1 possibly coming by 2020) and centers (PAMM, Arscht Performing Arts Center, Frost Science Museum, Jackie Gleason Theatre, Faena, and AA Arena) nearby. Missing is a Central Park....Cubans are but one group here—plenty of South Americans (all countries), Caribbean, Europeans, Canadians, Russians, and NY’ers....it’s more of a “flash”/glam city, kind of like LA.....and South Beach is only a consistent 15-20 minutes away which acts as its own separate city and is quite walkable as well....even closer is funky Coconut Grove, artsy/edgy Wynwood, Little Havana, Design District and Coral Gables.
Miami is a sophisticated / cosmopolitan city—known worldwide for its nightlife, restaurants, world class shopping, Art Deco and lifestyle. Reason why it has moved up to an Alpha City and why global people with $ want to own here...(I’m not trying to sell you...lol)...even some of the tourists are more sophisticated as evidenced by their willing to shell out money at Acqualina, St Regis Bal Harbour, Faena, etc where entry rates can start at $1000+ night during high season.
I have pointed out, ad nauseum, in another thread (ruffling some feathers) how Miami is the only city in FL I could live in...if I had wanted suburbia, I would’ve stayed in CA (though Palm Beach is very nice). I started coming here on business 5x/year 5 years ago and Miami grew on me...other benefits include no state income tax, closer to where I vacation (NYC, Europe and Latin America), and I am attracted to Latinas (hard to beat Miami).
I could have moved up to Santa Monica, but figured after 33 years of living in CA it was time to try something different...so far so good. I’m glad I had a chance to live in SF/Marin and SoCal (though not LA—the big gorilla)...I’ve lived in some great cities/areas. (Also lived in Atlanta for 2 years).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Adultman
I agree with you 100% about OC and San Diego but CA is so big and that's just a fraction of what it offers. Also, I do not see Miami or any major city in Florida for that matter as being sophisticated or cosmopolitan. The strong Cuban cultural presence is interesting but other than that I found Miami to have sort of a vapid, anti-intellectual vibe with a notable absence of culture. And despite being compact I didn't find it to be pedestrian-friendly at all, save for a few specific areas.
CA, on the other hand, has San Francisco, Oakland/Berkeley, and the West Side of LA, which are large, urban, highly educated, sophisticated, and cosmopolitan areas. You also have what many would consider to be more sophisticated weekend destinations, like Napa/Sonoma, Monterey, and Lake Tahoe.
Last edited by elchevere; 12-28-2018 at 11:51 AM..
NY, LA and SF suck for late night energy and close down by 11PM. Cities with best best energy: Vegas, Miami and New Orleans
Where do you hang out in NY? Long Island? If you hang out in NYC, you must be hanging out in SI or Queens. If you're hanging out in Manhattan, you should venture away from FiDi once in a while.
The Midwest obviously has Chicago, but outside of that it doesn't have a great lineup of cities for the type of urban exploration you're describing either. Minneapolis is the second best, followed by places with strong bones like Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Cleveland. But those all have major gaps and come nowhere close to providing a great, cohesive urban-exploration-at-night vibe a la the Northeast.
To be fair, people aren't spending their Saturday nights walking around random Chicago neighborhoods hoping to happen upon some random bar. You either live in the neighborhood or you went there specifically because it's a nightlife district.
Typically when I go out with my friends we have a part of town in mind, even if we don't always have a specific bar in mind. If we don't have a bar in mind, then we walk around in order to see what's busy, and then go from there. That's exactly how a city like St. Louis works as well if you don't have a bar in mind. You pick one of the various nightlife districts, which are all highly walkable, and go from there.
Chicago isn't a Midwestern unicorn, it's just big. It also has plenty of gaps in its urban fabric.
Where do you hang out in NY? Long Island? If you hang out in NYC, you must be hanging out in SI or Queens. If you're hanging out in Manhattan, you should venture away from FiDi once in a while.
This poster is known for making ridiculous statements just to get a rise out of people.
I think the reason why you will never see CA expand beyond 2AM also has to do with the fact it is such a car centric state....could you imagine how many more DUI’s and deaths there might be if it last call was extended to 4AM??....in a NY or Chicago you have much more public transportation options. Even with Uber/Lyft I do not see CA or the West Coast changing.
Vancouver definitely more mellow than Montreal or Toronto...weird drinking laws—was in a bar with no more available barstools (all occupied) but plenty of space to stand and enjoy a beer. I was told they could not serve me unless I was seated.
What bar?
Are you sure it wasn't a restaurant that had a bar? In those places diners don't want people standing over them drinking, or moving around the tables. The Primary Food Liquor License only allows restaurants to have patrons take drinks away from the table if the restaurant allows dancing or things like karaoke.
Confusion could occur between pubs and places that CALL themselves a pub, but don't have pub licenses but Primary Food ones.
One way to tell, is if the establishment allows children. If it does, it's not a pub, no matter what they call themselves, since pubs do not allow children.
People drink standing up in clubs,bars,and pubs all the time in Vancouver. I know, I've been doing it since I was 15...shock!!! Just not in restaurants for the most part.
I don't think the laws are any weirder than the myriad of liquor laws and licenses that exist elsewhere.
My guess is that you were in a restaurant with a Primary Food Liquor License that had a bar. They don't have to serve you food to drink, but you must be seated to drink. in other words , you weren't in a bar.
Plus the drinking age is 19 in BC, which for a 19 year old, overrides any " weird " law. LOL
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,542,189 times
Reputation: 6677
Was several years ago....if I recall correctly, name of the establishment was Chill Winston...still around??...there was plenty of space where I would not have been on top of anybody but they said they could not serve me unless seated...I told them I could multitask such as standing and drinking at the same time...was weird, never seen that enforced anywhere else, with plenty of open space, regardless of type of establishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
What bar?
Are you sure it wasn't a restaurant that had a bar? In those places diners don't want people standing over them drinking, or moving around the tables. The Primary Food Liquor License only allows restaurants to have patrons take drinks away from the table if the restaurant allows dancing or things like karaoke.
Confusion could occur between pubs and places that CALL themselves a pub, but don't have pub licenses but Primary Food ones.
One way to tell, is if the establishment allows children. If it does, it's not a pub, no matter what they call themselves, since pubs do not allow children.
People drink standing up in clubs,bars,and pubs all the time in Vancouver. I know, I've been doing it since I was 15...shock!!! Just not in restaurants for the most part.
I don't think the laws are any weirder than the myriad of liquor laws and licenses that exist elsewhere.
My guess is that you were in a restaurant with a Primary Food Liquor License that had a bar. They don't have to serve you food to drink, but you must be seated to drink. in other words , you weren't in a bar.
Plus the drinking age is 19 in BC, which for a 19 year old, overrides any " weird " law. LOL
Last edited by elchevere; 12-28-2018 at 02:08 PM..
Was several years ago....if I recall correctly, name of the establishment was Chill Winston...still around??...there was plenty of space where I would not have been on top of anybody but they said they could not serve me unless seated...I told them I could multitask such as standing and drinking at the same time...was weird, never seen that enforced anywhere else, with plenty of open space, regardless of type of establishment.
Chill Winston closed last year and a new place has opened up. Chill Winston was a restaurant, not a true pub or bar.
As for not encountering it elsewhere...hmmm. I'm trying to think, but in all my travels, I've never gone to a restaurant and wanted to stand and wander around with a drink, regardless of the space.
I can see the confusion though with a place like Chill Winston. It did give off a pub atmosphere, but the bar is only one small part of the place. The majority of it was a restaurant.
Even in places that may allow it legally, I think a lot of restaurants whose focus is on dining, wouldn't care for patrons wandering around with drinks.
In the end, Chill Winston wasn't so " chill ". Sorry, couldn't help myself.
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