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I'll add some perspective. This is the dollar amount of per person dollar GDP each of these Midwest metros have gained from 2015 to 2017 (rank overall in metros of 1 million plus in the USA)
How will St Louis fare in the next 1-2 decades? On paper, other than demographics and the bankruptcy, it's nearly a twin City of Detroit, yet is perceived to be in much better shape. Why?
St Louis has lower levels of poverty than Detroit, 20% of pop. vs. 34%, and median HH incomes are about $10k higher. Another big factor is that there's plenty of development in St. Louis outside of downtown, especially the central strip out to Forest Park, while most of the "comeback" in Detroit is limited to downtown.
I partialy agree with your post but take some exceptions.
To begin, KC is an attractive area and the city has hills and the Plaza. St. Louis has great bones and architecture.
Also, 15.6% of Grand Rapids' population is Hispanic, and 20% is Black - all well above the state's represenation. I am unsure what more it needs to do to be welcoming to minorities. It already has a population base of minorities which mirror national demographics. Perhaps you are referring to equal outcomes? My personal opinion is that equal opportunites should not be conflated with equal outcomes. I am unaware of such a lack of equal opportunites in Grand Rapids for anyone which would prevent anyone from reaching their full potential.
I also do not think that Grand Rapids has poor regional vision. The economy and housing situation is booming. The city has placed emphasis on preserving the architectural heritage of the city. It has developed the river. It's regional business leaders have helped diversify the economy. I would be interested of examples of poor regional vision. Not that I am disputing this possibility, but unsure what it is. The downtown area is very urbanized and expansive - more so than many larger cities.
Detroit's suburbs have seen a huge influx of blacks moving into them and it has become a more diverse metro area.
Since 2009, the state has the nation’s seventh-fastest growing economy, and many of its 14 metropolitan regions are chugging along. Nationwide, the Grand Rapids and Midland metro areas had the 24th and 25th fastest growing economies since 2009 out of 382 metro regions. And the six-county region of Metro Detroit, which accounts for more than half the state’s economy, was 44th.
Michigan has made radical changes to the state’s tax structure (which greatly benefitted businesses) and a more efficient state government. But there are warning signs: lower median incomes, education attainment levels, and performance by K-12 students. Michigan's new governor is focussing on these issues which are the keys to Michigan's further growth. In short, Michigan needs to focus its attention on education and rebuilding its infrasructure.
Yeah....maybe I was a little to rough on KC..lol
Yes...Grand Rapids proper is above the norm in black percentage....but the Grand Rapids metro is way below the norm in that respect. I am not sure about Hispanic, but I believe the metro percentage is much lower than the national percentage as well. Also, the black population in the city proper of Grand Rapids is also decreasing. Why is it decreasing during the era of the cities revitalization and comeback? Comeback for who? If the city is the place to be, now, why is the black population decreasing? Also, there have been studies listing the area as one of the worst places for African Americans.
In regards to economics and Michigan's performance with job growth....keep in mind that Michigan still has not recovered all the jobs that it lost during the recession. I think there are less jobs in Michigan, today, than there was in 2000, but yes, I am aware of the recent bounce back. The key test, again, is what happens during the next recession....which is actually over due by historical frequency.
When I say poor regional vision and planning concerning Grand Rapids......that is my bias. It maybe that the area does not want to be a boom town. Many people like things to remain the way they are and hence if that if the regional vision......then its working. My thing is like.....why is there not a major corporate HQ downtown of the major local companies to give the city a boost, kind of like what is happening in Detroit? Why is there not more integration of the lake shore with Grand Rapids via roads and highways? Again, these are just some things that I personally think would greatly enhance the area....but again....those are my biases.
Yes, the Detroit metro suburbs are becoming more diverse, as well as the city. I think that is a GOOD thing. All in all, Michigan is the state in the region with the most natural potential. If it ever lived up to it, again, it would be a top 10 growth state.
St Louis has lower levels of poverty than Detroit, 20% of pop. vs. 34%, and median HH incomes are about $10k higher. Another big factor is that there's plenty of development in St. Louis outside of downtown, especially the central strip out to Forest Park, while most of the "comeback" in Detroit is limited to downtown.
I think St Louis and Detroit are different in their level of sprawl. St Louis has still maintained decent development just a few miles out from downtown, but the suburbs (e.g. St Charles) are far weaker than Detroits.
In almost every direction from Detroit there are incredibly wealthy, sustaining suburbs. There's Royal Oak, Ann Arbor, Birmingham, Troy, Novi, and a dozen more.
While bringing people back from suburbs will be a challenge for Detroit, I think they can do it by slowly 'gentrifying' the area around downtown. Fully fixing the city will take decades and may be impossible, but I think in 10 or 20 years the whole area around downtown will be really cool if they keep the local government from becoming corrupt.
I think St Louis and Detroit are different in their level of sprawl. St Louis has still maintained decent development just a few miles out from downtown, but the suburbs (e.g. St Charles) are far weaker than Detroits.
In almost every direction from Detroit there are incredibly wealthy, sustaining suburbs. There's Royal Oak, Ann Arbor, Birmingham, Troy, Novi, and a dozen more.
While bringing people back from suburbs will be a challenge for Detroit, I think they can do it by slowly 'gentrifying' the area around downtown. Fully fixing the city will take decades and may be impossible, but I think in 10 or 20 years the whole area around downtown will be really cool if they keep the local government from becoming corrupt.
Good post I looked up a few figures and there’s a huge disparity between the cities. I think Detroit is going to be prominent again but it has to draw businesses and keep the city officials honest if that’s even possible anymore for anyplace. Detroit is starting out from an advantageous position.
Detroit City 673,000 K
St Louis. 308,000 K
Detroit Metro 4.3 Million People
St Lou. Metro 2.7 Million People
Detroit GDP 260 Billion
St Louis GDP 160 Billion
Last edited by Koji7; 05-01-2019 at 12:23 PM..
Reason: Syntax
Yes, metro Detroit is bigger, but St. Louis wins in terms of functional urbanism easily. While both cities have experienced severe population decline, St. Louis has retained many more cohesive, walkable neighborhoods in the urban core and inner-ring suburbs. Not to mention that St. Louis has 46 miles of light-rail transit that Detroit could only dream of.
Was this the first year St. Louis posted metro declines? I don't follow it that close but I never remember seeing St. Louis declining before. I've always felt it's metro was different than the core Rustbelt cities, more economically viable ect.
This was either the first year since 2010 or last year was. Last year might have been completely flat. I'd have to go back and double check. Virtually all post-2010 growth has been on the Missouri side, with a small exception being made for Monroe County, Illinois. Still, Monroe's population is tiny in comparison to the much larger Madison and St. Clair Counties on the Illinois side.
I'll add some perspective. This is the dollar amount of per person dollar GDP each of these Midwest metros have gained from 2015 to 2017 (rank overall in metros of 1 million plus in the USA)
1. "Gary - Obvious choice. Nothing can really save this town."
As pretty much the only forumer who lives in Gary...you are sadly mistaken.
Gary is turning around...lotsa big things happening here. The redesignation of the Dunes to National Park Status..the continuing revival of the Miller Beach neighborhood is accelerating..population citywide is stabilizing...the Indiana legislature just approved plans to move casino from lake to 80/94 site...and turn Buffington Harbor into a multimodal transportation hub with rail/airHighway/shipping components...
Gary is gonna shock alot of people in the coming years....
By far the best beach of any city in the great lakes...btw...no city comes close. Come see for yourself.
1. "Gary - Obvious choice. Nothing can really save this town."
As pretty much the only forumer who lives in Gary...you are sadly mistaken.
Gary is turning around...lotsa big things happening here. The redesignation of the Dunes to National Park Status..the continuing revival of the Miller Beach neighborhood is accelerating..population citywide is stabilizing...the Indiana legislature just approved plans to move casino from lake to 80/94 site...and turn Buffington Harbor into a multimodal transportation hub with rail/airHighway/shipping components...
Gary is gonna shock alot of people in the coming years....
By far the best beach of any city in the great lakes...btw...no city comes close. Come see for yourself.
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