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I haven't been to Phoenix in nearly 7 years, but that's hard to believe despite the photos that I've recently seen showing how much it's changed. No way that it has anywhere near as many jobs for example. And it had single family, ranch homes on quarter acre lots within short walking distance. Doubt that's changed.
I agree. While Phoenix has made significant strides to improve it's downtown in the past few years, Houston's is definitely more urban. I remember clubbing in Houston during the early 90's (that was a good time) and Houston's urban downtown footprint was established and built up a lot earlier on than Phoenix was. The one thing I'm not a fan of in Houston is the lack of zoning laws.
Does anyone here consider that Phoenix is one (if not the) newest major city (at least in the top 5 largest)? Its growth will turn back inward on itself and become more dense and urban (it's already starting). LA did the same thing. Give Phoenix a break, it's new and is growing like a beast. It seems CD is obsessed that Phoenix just isn't as developed or dense like Chicago, NY, LA, and Boston. Those cities have been around sooooo much longer. They've had a huge jump on development over Phoenix. Sorry I don't have the exact numbers to quantify "soooo much longer", but it's considerable.
Does anyone here consider that Phoenix is one (if not the) newest major city (at least in the top 5 largest)? Its growth will turn back inward on itself and become more dense and urban (it's already starting). LA did the same thing. Give Phoenix a break, it's new and is growing like a beast. It seems CD is obsessed that Phoenix just isn't as developed or dense like Chicago, NY, LA, and Boston. Those cities have been around sooooo much longer. They've had a huge jump on development over Phoenix. Sorry I don't have the exact numbers to quantify "soooo much longer", but it's considerable.
It's a fair point. Most of Phoenix's "historic" developments (again most, not the oldest) are post WWII. For example my house in Tempe was built in 1946, and is considered extremely old for the metro. Phoenix has been a city for less than 100 years. There are people on earth who are almost as old as the entire state of Arizona is (when we got statehood, anyway). People don't factor that in. I would say Phoenix didn't really become a city until the 60s or 70s, which would put the metropolitan area around 50 years old. Again, the nation's largest generation is all exclusively over 50 years old. Most people remember us before we became a city.
And when you also factor in that during the 40s-70s and I would even argue until the 2010s suburban sprawl was *the* model of development and almost exclusively nothing else, with exceptions in maybe NYC for housing. Now people are starting to develop differently, but suburban sprawl is still *the* primary form of development.
And with Phoenix's explosive development, it's safe to say that uncontrollable growth will cause more long-term problems than steady, stable growth, like in a lot of Eastern cities, and now decreasing, like many Midwest cities.
No it hasn’t. I live in Houston and was in downtown Phoenix earlier this week.
Houston does sprawl more yes, but the urban neighborhoods in Houston are moreso than the ones in Phoenix.
Houston: Midtown is only urban urban area close to downtown and gives the urban feel. Rest: Montrose and Medical Center too far and disjointed
Phoenix: Central Corridor and Mid town Phoenix are nicely connected to Downtown Phoenix. So Phoenix gives off more urban vibe. More impressive than Houston. Look carefully and go all over the area before giving your findings.
Houston: Midtown is only urban urban area close to downtown and gives the urban feel. Rest: Montrose and Medical Center too far and disjointed
Phoenix: Central Corridor and Mid town Phoenix are nicely connected to Downtown Phoenix. So Phoenix gives off more urban vibe. More impressive than Houston. Look carefully and go all over the area before giving your findings.
I think Houston's inner ring residential neighborhoods feel more urban than Phoenix's.
Houston: Midtown is only urban urban area close to downtown and gives the urban feel. Rest: Montrose and Medical Center too far and disjointed
Phoenix: Central Corridor and Mid town Phoenix are nicely connected to Downtown Phoenix. So Phoenix gives off more urban vibe. More impressive than Houston. Look carefully and go all over the area before giving your findings.
How did you not count East Downtown? Kind of interesting that you also skipped the Museum District and went straight to TMC as well.
Does anyone here consider that Phoenix is one (if not the) newest major city (at least in the top 5 largest)? Its growth will turn back inward on itself and become more dense and urban (it's already starting). LA did the same thing. Give Phoenix a break, it's new and is growing like a beast. It seems CD is obsessed that Phoenix just isn't as developed or dense like Chicago, NY, LA, and Boston. Those cities have been around sooooo much longer. They've had a huge jump on development over Phoenix. Sorry I don't have the exact numbers to quantify "soooo much longer", but it's considerable.
San Jose and Phoenix were about the same size (~100K) in 1950 and both are over a million now. But San Jose is twice as dense and has a significantly more walkable, cohesive downtown. Yes it sprawls a ton but anyone who has experienced San Jose sprawl vs. Phoenix Sprawl knows the difference. Phoenix sprawl is like San Jose sprawl if someone stretched it out and flattened it with a rolling pin.
1950 was actually a key point for Phoenix when it had multiple tech companies and a nice, relatively small but walkable downtown core. it could have focused on strengthening its core with some moderate outward expansion. Instead for decades it was all about real estate speculation and building on as much land as possible as far out as possible with major government subsidies. Phoenix was not alone in sprawling out during this time, but they took it to the next level.
Houston: Midtown is only urban urban area close to downtown and gives the urban feel. Rest: Montrose and Medical Center too far and disjointed
Phoenix: Central Corridor and Mid town Phoenix are nicely connected to Downtown Phoenix. So Phoenix gives off more urban vibe. More impressive than Houston. Look carefully and go all over the area before giving your findings.
Does anywhere? Keep in mind that in any urban area once you leave the main city you're in different cities, towns, counties, etc. Why would there be a regulatory constraint that those cities can't grow? Where does that exist?
This often ceases to be true in foreign countries, but since i'm not allowed to mention them, i'll just say that while not as extreme Mexico and Canada both have stronger metropolitan governments than U.S cities.
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