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I'd actually argue that first video is lot quieter than a normal weekend/week day, specifically looking at the Public Garden, Newbury, and Boylston. Charles St. is always pretty quiet (by design). Acorn St. sees a lot of tourists, but that's about it.
The rest of the videos are pretty indicative of normal pedestrian activity.
Overall, I'm a bit surprised to hear anyone say that ATL feels bigger than Boston. I don't know if that's just a reputational thing? I know Atlanta very well.. Buckhead to Edgewater, Decatur to Vine City. If you've ever been to Boston, and have explored the neighborhoods from Southie to Allston, Davis Sq. to Roslindale, Seaport to JP.. I'm not sure anyone would argue this without complete and total bias. Boston neighborhoods are more grandiose, more vibrant, more dense respectively. Buckhead would be a suburb. I mean, even Arlington feels bigger than Buckhead. Inman Park would be one square of Cambridge, ditto Old Fourth Ward. What would be ATLs response to Seaport? North End? South End? Brookline?
Sorry guys, not even seeing a comparison here. I do, however, like Atlanta a lot. The beltline is literally one of my favorite new features of any major city. Great music, good food, unique culture.
It is not Atlanta's reputation at all. People are using density and urbanity to say that Boston feels larger and it just doesn't make sense IMO. There's a distinction between which city is more urban and which city feels larger. For instance, Atlanta is more urban than Dallas and Houston but I would sound very silly to say that Atlanta feels larger than those cities for that sole reason. Houston and Dallas definitely feel larger than Atlanta despite Atlanta's urban edge.
Also, no one is denying that Boston is more urban and denser than Atlanta. That is obvious but it seems like the "reputation thing" you speak of isn't coming from the people that's saying Atlanta feels larger than Boston.
I removed the towns in NH that are far north of the border and added the South Coast, northern RI, and eastern Worcester county. Believe it or not, the area I defined is smaller than Boston's actual MSA by about 800 square miles.
Here are town maps if you want a visual of the towns I added, kept, and removed (most towns in Hillsborough and Rockingham Counties in NH were removed).
1) MSAs are based on county definitions, but in much of New England counties don't really matter or make a ton of sense. For example, Plymouth County is part of Boston's MSA but Bristol County isn't. However, Marion (a town in Plymouth County) is much farther from Boston than Taunton (a city in Bristol county).
2) I don't know if there is an official "commuter threshold" required for one county to be counted toward one city's MSA. I just skimmed through the goverment's page that explains MSA breakdowns and it sounds like in the 50s it was decided that Providence and Worcester were large enough to be their own principle cities (which they are) and that the counties most adjacent to them would fall under those city's MSAs.
EDIT: On further investigation it seems like there is a commuting percentage component, and the "CSA" was created to specifically deal with cases where counties are functionally split between MSAs. Idk. It's all very convoluted. In any case, Boston's CSA definition also isn't all that helpful because it includes all of RI, half of NH and more of central MA than it has any right to. I really believe that my list of towns is a relatively good summary of places that may consider themselves to be part of "Greater Boston".
3) Jumping off that last point, towns and counties cannot be double-counted as part of multiple MSAs so the towns that were allocated to Worcester and Providence by the government in the 1950s won't show up in Boston's MSA definition even though they're very close and (I imagine) have more commuters heading to the Boston area every day rather than in the other direction. Just because of the current difference in job market between Providence and Boston, I'd be surprised if more people from Attleborough or Taunton commuted towards Providence than towards Boston everyday, but I don't have the numbers to back that up. Both those towns are stops on the Boston commuter rail for whatever that's worth. (actually Taunton's station is currently being added).
Northern ri way more intertwined with Boston than central nh
It is not Atlanta's reputation at all. People are using density and urbanity to say that Boston feels larger and it just doesn't make sense IMO. There's a distinction between which city is more urban and which city feels larger. For instance, Atlanta is more urban than Dallas and Houston but I would sound very silly to say that Atlanta feels larger than those cities for that sole reason. Houston and Dallas definitely feel larger than Atlanta despite Atlanta's urban edge.
Also, no one is denying that Boston is more urban and denser than Atlanta. That is obvious but it seems like the "reputation thing" you speak of isn't coming from the people that's saying Atlanta feels larger than Boston.
But that’s because on the scale of “urban” Atlanta is like an order of magnitude closer to Houston/Dallas than Atlanta is to Boston.
2) it’s because people are using Atlanta has a larger MSA to say that Atlanta looks bigger from the highway and starts much further out. But on the highway or streets you don’t see county lines. You look out the window at buildings or count the lanes or whatever. Over the same geographic area Boston has more people around it.
Now you can say Atlanta has more traffic in the core expressways because a larger portion of those people travel into the core counties and thus bigger feeling.
To some people (me included) density doesn't make a city feel bigger.
But that’s because on the scale of “urban” Atlanta is like an order of magnitude closer to Houston/Dallas than Atlanta is to Boston.
You guys have so many "gray areas" in these claims. First, we add additional MSA's and additional land to the debate. Then, we simplify urbanity to justify the argument.
You guys have so many "gray areas" in these claims. First, we add additional MSA's and additional land to the debate. Then, we simplify urbanity to justify the argument.
Some of the posters who are in favor of Boston are all over the place. They didn't want to use anything outside the city limits, but then they start bringing up Cambridge and other towns surrounding Boston. Then it went from city limits all the way to CSAs, then it's the skyline. Now it's the Boston area is dense and compact, but they want to use cities and towns 50 miles away.
Some of the posters who are in favor of Boston are all over the place. They didn't want to use anything outside the city limits, but then they start bringing up Cambridge and other towns surrounding Boston. Then it went from city limits all the way to CSAs, then it's the skyline. Now it's the Boston area is dense and compact, but they want to use cities and towns 50 miles away.
I don’t really understand why the outer suburbs come into this at all once you get outside 128 or OTP it looks like you’re in the woods. It doesn’t feel like a city (until you reach legacy mill cities anyway) the fact Phoenix is being left out is kind of crazy by far it looks like the largest city from the highway because you can see the city.
Some of the posters who are in favor of Boston are all over the place. They didn't want to use anything outside the city limits, but then they start bringing up Cambridge and other towns surrounding Boston. Then it went from city limits all the way to CSAs, then it's the skyline. Now it's the Boston area is dense and compact, but they want to use cities and towns 50 miles away.
Eh. I feel like there are/were two debates going on: “which feels like the larger city?” and “which feels like the largest metro area?”
The thread was focusing on the first question for the first few pages. I’d argue that you yourself introduced the second debate with your comment about South Carolina, which was at first shunned and then later embraced.
You were also the one to first mention skylines, iirc.
It is not Atlanta's reputation at all. People are using density and urbanity to say that Boston feels larger and it just doesn't make sense IMO. There's a distinction between which city is more urban and which city feels larger. For instance, Atlanta is more urban than Dallas and Houston but I would sound very silly to say that Atlanta feels larger than those cities for that sole reason. Houston and Dallas definitely feel larger than Atlanta despite Atlanta's urban edge.
Also, no one is denying that Boston is more urban and denser than Atlanta. That is obvious but it seems like the "reputation thing" you speak of isn't coming from the people that's saying Atlanta feels larger than Boston.
So in what way does Atlanta feel larger..what’s your argument for saying that a city with less people, less density by 4 fold in 130 sq miles, smaller csa and way less vibrancy in the urban area feels larger?? ..if you say Atlanta feels bigger when driving on the highway then I accept it and less end this nonsense ..
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