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Aw, heck. The city I live in has multiple religious universities, so I could easily overlook Bob Jones U. No big deal. But do you think Greenville is more culturally conservative?
To be perfectly honest, I don't really see what others are saying regarding ultra conservative. All my coworkers at my previous job were very liberal and at least in downtown it actually feels like its getting more liberal not less. They all love Greenville if that says anything. The fact that there seems to be a lot of Northern transplants flocking here also seems to be changing the dynamics here. For god's sake, someone is petitioning to rename one of the major roads here to Barrack Obama blvd.
Every downtown area in an area near the mountains or hills will eventually become heavy majority liberal. This is part of ClemVegas's natural law of cities.
The creation of Falls Park 13 years ago accelerated this trend
I included Greenville because for all I know Greenville may be just as good as the others I have listed - I haven't visited the others yet and why I wanted to start a post and get a feel for what others thought. I also don't get annoyed at positive comments, its just that the aspects you were saying were so great about Greenville were irrelevant to what I had stated in my original post...
The political stuff was introduced by other people. I agreed it seems to be major factor for people who don't like gville. I recommend Raleigh, Richmond, Charlotte in that order for liberals unless they really like the blue ridge and don't hate Republicans
I wasnt making a comment about your personal politics. I have no idea what your political views are.
Last edited by ClemVegas; 06-01-2019 at 06:53 PM..
The political stuff was introduced by other people. I agreed it seems to be major factor for people who don't like gville.
I wasnt making a comment about your personal politics.
I'm not sure why you are continuing to try and justify yourself. I wasn't referring to the political comments, I was referring to the fact that you started off on this post quoting me and defending Greenville. For the sake of continuing on with a useful discussion and not debating back and forth with you let's end it at that please. I'm sure there are others who are just as curious as I am as to the differences between these cities and it was an interesting discussion.
From what I've gathered thus far, Charlotte and Richmond are larger than Greenville and seem to be dense. Raleigh it seems is a bit more sprawled (which makes sense given you've got Durham and Chapel Hill that Raleigh kind of shares that area with) but it looks like Raleigh is recognizing that it doesn't quite have as distinct of a downtown area as the others and is working on this... At least, that is what I've gathered from the little I read in their master plans.
Ok you think it is defensive for me to quote you and express an opinion.
I won't respond to any of your posts from now on.
My first post was basically asking you what you consider exciting. I never thought u were attacking gville so it doesn't make sense to say I was defending gville
You edited your post about 4 times already so yeah, it's a bit misleading for you to say this now and its clear on other post that I am not the only one with this opinion. Not responding on any of my other post is probably for the best. ANYWAYS, back to the topic that I had made this post for.
There are a lot of exciting changes happening in Greenville, however, starting to find that we are urbanites and when not in Downtown Greenville we find the city a bit boring (and I mean this with absolutely no disrespect so please don't start with getting defensive as I see often on this forum). I think if we stayed our next move would be within walking distance of downtown. We are beginning to look at all of our options as my wife and I were just afforded jobs that will allow for fully remote work within a year. We really miss the coast so, as you'll see, these cities are roughly 3 hours or less (Richmond being the closest). Each of the following cities appear to have a lot of exciting changes coming when looking up the master plans, so I'd be interested to see the feedback. With that said, which is the best given the following criteria: Charlotte, Greenville, Raleigh, Richmond
Downtown:
Restaurants:
Shopping:
Economy:
Crime:
Culture:
Education:
Location:
Scenery:
Cleanliness:
Things to do:
Overall:
Let's start with this, you guys are urbanites. None of the other three cities are gonna come close to Richmond here. Not even close, if that is one of the larger priorities, there is no real comparison to the other cities...
You guys also favor living close to the coast, again, none of the other cities compare to Richmond here. You can get to multiple coastal destinations from Richmond in the time it takes to get to one coastal destination from either of the other three...
Downtowns, Charlotte's is going to be larger by virtue of being the significantly largest city here. And it's going to have a ton of things to do. None of these cities are poor downtown, and Raleigh has really stepped it up big time. Richmond's downtown is probably still more exciting and again, if urbanity is important to you, the connectivity of Downtown Richmond's seamless transition to other urban neighborhoods is unmatched by these other cities. Charlotte is close because it is large and does well integrating with peripheral neighborhoods too...
But the walkability factor, the fact you can whitewater raft and cruise The Canal, those are things that just aren't present in the other cities. Richmond is gonna have the most unique downtown of the bunch...
As to your other criteria:
Absolutely no one but blind Raleigh fans is gonna tell you Raleigh is better than Richmond here. Not at all, the concentration and variety of eateries in an urban setting (yes, that again) favors Richmond. On balance I can see an argument for them being about equal as cities, but the difference is, in Raleigh you're gonna be running all over the city to find good eats outside downtown, and again, there is a higher volume of diverse foods in core Rich that feeds into the personality of you guys as urbanites....
Charlotte wins for shopping, Raleigh and Richmond are relatively equal (I think Rich does boutiques and local retailers better, so maybe a hair to Rich)...
Richmond and Charlotte seem to have the hotter economies right now...
Raleigh and Greenville are easily the two safest cities here...
As stated, you are looking for an urban culture with close access to the coast. For you, Richmond is winning this by a mile. Everybody isn't for Richmond's culture of course, but my desires are alot like yours. For me, Richmond's culture beats everyone else's soundly....
Raleigh is going to win education top to bottom. I've heard good things about Greenville, and Richmond is a really strong city with its higher ed infrastructure (J Sarge, VCU, UR, etc)...
Location is Richmond by a mile...
Neither of these are bad looking cities, Greenville does seem particularly naturally picturesque...but if by scenery you are including architecture and aesthetic appeal, again, the group of cities being compared here aren't good challengers to Richmond...
Raleigh and Charlotte are both really clean...
Things to do is touchy, I can tell you for sure you'll get bored faster in Raleigh than Richmond. Charlotte is larger so again, overall it is going to probably won the quantity thing, and I'm not sure how Greenville competes with any of these cities...
Final Word
Listen, if I had a pick, and being that some of my priorities seem to mirror yours, this is Richmond in a landslide. If your personality and criteria was different, it could favor these other cities for sure...
On balance, Richmond and Raleigh are equals, neither is superior to the other. They have different strengths and weaknesses and the one that appeals more to someone is strict preference. I've been around both for a long time. It is amazing the amount of Raleigh/Triangle people who have this mischaracterization of Richmond. Its 3 hours away, it would do people little effort to take a few trips to Rich in a year...
As it is, I've long known people familiar with both. I've yet to meet a single person who had an honest familiarity with both who saw Raleigh as superior, the same can't be said in reverse. But this is city data, which if you've been here long enough, you know there is an over representation of NC on here, and an under representation of VA, and this by extension, there is going to be an over representation of the type of people one attracts compared to the other. So just keep that in context, in CD world, you hear a ton of the opposite perception with Rich vs Raleigh specifically, than you'd see in real life...
And conversely, overall Richmond has no mis- or preconceptions about Raleigh. People know Raleigh is doing well and are not threatened by that...
Full disclosure, I've only been to Greenville once so I can't give a great assessment, but I think it's obvious it's probably in last place here. I lived in Charlotte in 2013-14 and have visited many other times; I spent part of my adolescence around Richmond and lived there as an adult in 2015-16, and I currently live in Raleigh, have been many times but especially so in the last 3+ years as my fiance is from Raleigh...
How is Greenville more conservative than the others? I'm asking because I've considered all four of these cities to move to. The city I currently live in is too conservative in ways for me.
Richmond city voted 15 percent Trump
Charlotte's Mecklenburg County voted 33 percent Trump
Raleigh's Wake County voted 37 percent Trump
Greenville's Greenville County voted 59 percent Trump
And here are the 8 counties that border Greenville County:
Abbeville: 63 percent Trump
Anderson: 70 percent Trump
Henderson: 62 percent Trump
Laurens: 63 percent Trump
Pickens: 74 percent Trump
Polk: 62 percent Trump
Spartanburg: 63 percent Trump
Transylvania: 59 percent Trump
The Greenville CSA is one of the most right-wing in the country: both socially and fiscally. If you don't subscribe to right-wing ideology, I would look elsewhere. And the city is home to the puritanical, evangelical, far-right Bob Jones University.
Charlotte as a whole, when you add in its suburbs, is more of a swing metro, with a large moderate bent.
Raleigh is liberal, and especially so when you add Durham.
Richmond city is the most Democratic, but Raleigh-Durham is probably more liberal.
Let's start with this, you guys are urbanites. None of the other three cities are gonna come close to Richmond here. Not even close, if that is one of the larger priorities, there is no real comparison to the other cities...
You guys also favor living close to the coast, again, none of the other cities compare to Richmond here. You can get to multiple coastal destinations from Richmond in the time it takes to get to one coastal destination from either of the other three...
Downtowns, Charlotte's is going to be larger by virtue of being the significantly largest city here. And it's going to have a ton of things to do. None of these cities are poor downtown, and Raleigh has really stepped it up big time. Richmond's downtown is probably still more exciting and again, if urbanity is important to you, the connectivity of Downtown Richmond's seamless transition to other urban neighborhoods is unmatched by these other cities. Charlotte is close because it is large and does well integrating with peripheral neighborhoods too...
But the walkability factor, the fact you can whitewater raft and cruise The Canal, those are things that just aren't present in the other cities. Richmond is gonna have the most unique downtown of the bunch...
As to your other criteria:
Absolutely no one but blind Raleigh fans is gonna tell you Raleigh is better than Richmond here. Not at all, the concentration and variety of eateries in an urban setting (yes, that again) favors Richmond. On balance I can see an argument for them being about equal as cities, but the difference is, in Raleigh you're gonna be running all over the city to find good eats outside downtown, and again, there is a higher volume of diverse foods in core Rich that feeds into the personality of you guys as urbanites....
Charlotte wins for shopping, Raleigh and Richmond are relatively equal (I think Rich does boutiques and local retailers better, so maybe a hair to Rich)...
Richmond and Charlotte seem to have the hotter economies right now...
Raleigh and Greenville are easily the two safest cities here...
As stated, you are looking for an urban culture with close access to the coast. For you, Richmond is winning this by a mile. Everybody isn't for Richmond's culture of course, but my desires are alot like yours. For me, Richmond's culture beats everyone else's soundly....
Raleigh is going to win education top to bottom. I've heard good things about Greenville, and Richmond is a really strong city with its higher ed infrastructure (J Sarge, VCU, UR, etc)...
Location is Richmond by a mile...
Neither of these are bad looking cities, Greenville does seem particularly naturally picturesque...but if by scenery you are including architecture and aesthetic appeal, again, the group of cities being compared here aren't good challengers to Richmond...
Raleigh and Charlotte are both really clean...
Things to do is touchy, I can tell you for sure you'll get bored faster in Raleigh than Richmond. Charlotte is larger so again, overall it is going to probably won the quantity thing, and I'm not sure how Greenville competes with any of these cities...
Final Word
Listen, if I had a pick, and being that some of my priorities seem to mirror yours, this is Richmond in a landslide. If your personality and criteria was different, it could favor these other cities for sure...
On balance, Richmond and Raleigh are equals, neither is superior to the other. They have different strengths and weaknesses and the one that appeals more to someone is strict preference. I've been around both for a long time. It is amazing the amount of Raleigh/Triangle people who have this mischaracterization of Richmond. Its 3 hours away, it would do people little effort to take a few trips to Rich in a year...
As it is, I've long known people familiar with both. I've yet to meet a single person who had an honest familiarity with both who saw Raleigh as superior, the same can't be said in reverse. But this is city data, which if you've been here long enough, you know there is an over representation of NC on here, and an under representation of VA, and this by extension, there is going to be an over representation of the type of people one attracts compared to the other. So just keep that in context, in CD world, you hear a ton of the opposite perception with Rich vs Raleigh specifically, than you'd see in real life...
And conversely, overall Richmond has no mis- or preconceptions about Raleigh. People know Raleigh is doing well and are not threatened by that...
Full disclosure, I've only been to Greenville once so I can't give a great assessment, but I think it's obvious it's probably in last place here. I lived in Charlotte in 2013-14 and have visited many other times; I spent part of my adolescence around Richmond and lived there as an adult in 2015-16, and I currently live in Raleigh, have been many times but especially so in the last 3+ years as my fiance is from Raleigh...
How did the crime seem when you lived in Richmond and on your most recent visits there? I ask as a lot of the research I have done on crime in Richmond seems to indicate Richmond as having a crime problem. Given the size of the city, the crime stats do seem pretty worrysome.
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