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I really dont see how Baltimore has stronger culture just less transplants. Especially not compared to the AA culture in DC area
You can have culture with transplants. Look at NYC and California. The difference, IMO, is that DC is a short-term transplant city for many. Lots of people move there for internships or short-term government jobs, then return home. Obviously millions are remaining as the region is booming, but I think there is a stronger revolving door of transplants that other transplant-heavy cities don't have.
Also, NYC and LA are some of the top transplant cities in the country (even the world). They attract people for all sorts of reasons from high-paying finance/healthcare/government jobs to creative jobs like artists/musicians/entertainment industry people and everything in between, all of which are supported by the service sector to some degree. OTOH, DC is government-heavy. DC has a strong tech and healthcare economy as well, which are good for the higher end, but when drawing factor is government work, you're not really getting the type of creative people that make for a more interesting local culture. DC has a very strong culture with the AA community that's been living there for decades, and there is a growing Central American population AFAIK, but it's still not the same.
I would definitely say Baltimore has a stronger local culture than DC, but that's not to say DC entirely lacks local culture. It still has more than most other major cities in the US, but it's hard to stack up against local culture from Boston, NYC, Philly, and Baltimore. Arguably, they're the top cities for local culture in the country along with a select few others. And no, this is not white washing culture before someone brings that up. Boston has a real Chinatown and a heavy Brazilian/Portuguese speaking population. NYC has a strong everything culture of all nationalities/ethnicity. Philly, in my experiences, is attracting a lot of Puerto Ricans and immigrants from the DR are becoming kinda prominent, as well as having a Chinatown, plus a Vietnamese area and a heavy Mexican presence in South Philly which is still prominently Italian and Irish but changing with immigrants moving into some parts of South Philly. Baltimore I'm less positive about, since I don't have as much first-hand experience there, but I know the region as a whole has a strong local culture in food, language, etc. DC has Chinatown and receives immigrants from all over the world, but as of today, I just don't see it as having the same local culture as the rest of the NE Corridor.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by jessemh431
You can have culture with transplants. Look at NYC and California. The difference, IMO, is that DC is a short-term transplant city for many. Lots of people move there for internships or short-term government jobs, then return home. Obviously millions are remaining as the region is booming, but I think there is a stronger revolving door of transplants that other transplant-heavy cities don't have.
Also, NYC and LA are some of the top transplant cities in the country (even the world). They attract people for all sorts of reasons from high-paying finance/healthcare/government jobs to creative jobs like artists/musicians/entertainment industry people and everything in between, all of which are supported by the service sector to some degree. OTOH, DC is government-heavy. DC has a strong tech and healthcare economy as well, which are good for the higher end, but when drawing factor is government work, you're not really getting the type of creative people that make for a more interesting local culture. DC has a very strong culture with the AA community that's been living there for decades, and there is a growing Central American population AFAIK, but it's still not the same.
I would definitely say Baltimore has a stronger local culture than DC, but that's not to say DC entirely lacks local culture. It still has more than most other major cities in the US, but it's hard to stack up against local culture from Boston, NYC, Philly, and Baltimore. Arguably, they're the top cities for local culture in the country along with a select few others. And no, this is not white washing culture before someone brings that up. Boston has a real Chinatown and a heavy Brazilian/Portuguese speaking population. NYC has a strong everything culture of all nationalities/ethnicity. Philly, in my experiences, is attracting a lot of Puerto Ricans and immigrants from the DR are becoming kinda prominent, as well as having a Chinatown, plus a Vietnamese area and a heavy Mexican presence in South Philly which is still prominently Italian and Irish but changing with immigrants moving into some parts of South Philly. Baltimore I'm less positive about, since I don't have as much first-hand experience there, but I know the region as a whole has a strong local culture in food, language, etc. DC has Chinatown and receives immigrants from all over the world, but as of today, I just don't see it as having the same local culture as the rest of the NE Corridor.
Not everyone in the government, is uninteresting or a total square like much of C-D will make it seem. There are creative types in the DMV area who's day job/ primary is a gov't job, but by night or weekend are into a multitude of "creative" or interesting things. There are gov't workers who also DJ, host art exhibits, play in bands, or design clothes etc.
With that said DC is the youngest city out of the corridor, and doesn't have the same levels of local ethnic enclaves in the city proper as the other NEC cities. Baltimore has more of a down home feel in many areas because quite frankly it's not as international and does not draw the amount of transplant diversity as it's neighbor. DC is a much more "worldly" area, but both cities have high level professional jobs. More languages are spoken when walking down the street in DC, it also has greater tourism, but none of these are a negative for Bmore. I believe the spill over affect from DC being so pricey and connected via rail will pay off well for Baltimore, the crime and schools do need major work though.
Location you can't beat though. If major cities were NBA players, and had to make a decision solely on what region they could go to or be placed in for the best chance at success. The location that Baltimore sits in would be a top destination for potential success in the long run.
Last edited by the resident09; 07-15-2019 at 12:26 PM..
Baltimore has 30% with college degrees. That is far better than the typical failed city where it’s half that. I just don’t see how you fix the disparity between the Inner Harbor & Johns Hopkins prosperity and the war zone with the high poverty rate. It’s tough to overcome poor parenting.
You're also neglecting to consider the stiffling inequality that exists in Boston, NYC, Philly and DC. Forget the socially constructed measures of "success" like GDP and bachelor's degrees. There's still plenty of poverty to go around, even in the "wealthiest" cities.
They've just gotten very good at hiding it and/or are adept at pushing out poor people with strict zoning and housing policies.
I know of no city that should be patting itself on the back when it comes to creating a truly inclusive and accommodating place to live and work for all social classes and backgrounds, although Philly likely comes the closest in the NEC.
Not everyone in the government, is uninteresting or a total square like much of C-D will make it seem. There are creative types in the DMV area who's day job/ primary is a gov't job, but by night or weekend are into a multitude of "creative" or interesting things. There are gov't workers who also DJ, host art exhibits, play in bands, or design clothes etc.
With that said DC is the youngest city out of the corridor, and doesn't have the same levels of local ethnic enclaves in the city proper as the other NEC cities. Baltimore has more of a down home feel in many areas because quite frankly it's not as international and does not draw the amount of transplant diversity as it's neighbor. DC is a much more "worldly" area, but both cities have high level professional jobs. More languages are spoken when walking down the street in DC, it also has greater tourism. None of these are a negative for Bmore. I believe the spill over affect from DC being so pricey and connected via rail will pay off well for Baltimore, the crime and schools do need major work though.
Location you can't beat though. If major cities were NBA players, and had to make a decision solely on what region they could go to or be placed in for the best chance at success. The location that Baltimore sits in would be a top destination for potential success in the long run.
Potential has an expiration date. We really need to start make moves like ..yesterday.
Not everyone in the government, is uninteresting or a total square like much of C-D will make it seem. There are creative types in the DMV area who's day job/ primary is a gov't job, but by night or weekend are into a multitude of "creative" or interesting things. There are gov't workers who also DJ, host art exhibits, play in bands, or design clothes etc.
With that said DC is the youngest city out of the corridor, and doesn't have the same levels of local ethnic enclaves in the city proper as the other NEC cities. Baltimore has more of a down home feel in many areas because quite frankly it's not as international and does not draw the amount of transplant diversity as it's neighbor. DC is a much more "worldly" area, but both cities have high level professional jobs. More languages are spoken when walking down the street in DC, it also has greater tourism, but none of these are a negative for Bmore. I believe the spill over affect from DC being so pricey and connected via rail will pay off well for Baltimore, the crime and schools do need major work though.
Location you can't beat though. If major cities were NBA players, and had to make a decision solely on what region they could go to or be placed in for the best chance at success. The location that Baltimore sits in would be a top destination for potential success in the long run.
I agree. Not everyone in government is boring. But it's definitely more the suit-and-tie crowd in DC. NYC has that in Manhattan, but you still have the creatives in other places, especially Brooklyn, even though it's seeing an influx of the suit-and-tie types. But the creatives will never stop calling the Tri-State home. I will say, though, one of my best friends was living in DC in a non-government/law job and she felt a little on the outside of many social circles. She'd often meet people out or as friends of friends to grow her social circle, and when they found out she wasn't in a profession that they could use as a springboard, they weren't mean to her, just not as interested in being her friend as before. I still think it comes down to the revolving door of people working in politics/law/government in the city itself. But I'll be the first to convince anyone that DC has a very solid dining and nightlife scene is several neighborhoods. I love 14th St, U St, Adams Morgan, and next time I'm there I want to bar hop on 8th St. Also, for being a newly built neighborhood, most of which have issues being cool/interesting, Navy Yard actually is quite lively the two times I've been there. All of this would not be possible without the DINKs and young people flooding into the DMV.
As people continue to actually settle long-term in DC, it'll start creating more local culture beyond just that of the AA community. There is no doubt this will happen. But that doesn't change the fact that Baltimore has had a local culture for far longer. That's definitely due in large part to its stagnant population and lack of international immigration/domestic migration. But that doesn't take away from it having a strong local culture. Cincinnati, Louisville, and Lexington aren't some beacons of international immigration, and it they see only slight in-migration from rural/depressed farming/coal-mining town plus some people looking for lower COL. I mention them because I know them pretty well. They all have very distinct local cultures. Cincinnati has its own defined accent, culture, and foods. Louisville and Lexington have shared accents more or less, but different vibes and local cultures even though they're only a 1 hour drive apart. So just because Baltimore hasn't seen an influx of new residents doesn't take away from its local culture.
I agree that better rail access between Bmore and DC will play out very nicely for DC. I, for one, would rather live in Bmore for the local vibe and commute to the job center in DC if I couldn't find a job in Bmore. I'm one of those boring government workers I talk about. I'm not boring myself, but I see the people around and they're not bundles of energy or the outgoing people working in the creative sectors or even some of the finance offices in Manhattan. So if I want to go Federal, I have to work in DC most likely, but I'd definitely live in Bmore and commute in if that ever happens.
For people who did not know prior, the Baltimore area has jobs as well. We don't have have to commute to another Metropolitan Area to find work. That seems to be a reoccurring theme when discussing Baltimore, is that people move here to live, but work in another metro, or that most people who are born and raised here travel to another metro to get a paycheck.
You're also neglecting to consider the stiffling inequality that exists in Boston, NYC, Philly and DC. Forget the socially constructed measures of "success" like GDP and bachelor's degrees. There's still plenty of poverty to go around, even in the "wealthiest" cities.
They've just gotten very good at hiding it and/or are adept at pushing out poor people with strict zoning and housing policies.
I know of no city that should be patting itself on the back when it comes to creating a truly inclusive and accommodating place to live and work for all social classes and backgrounds, although Philly likely comes the closest in the NEC.
DC was the defacto murder capital of the US back in the early 90's when it was comfortably pushing 450+ murders a year and peaked at 481 in 92'. What is now Navy Yards was the legiatement hood. There was a cartel ring running drugs 3 blocks north of the Capital building.
2+ decades later and one would never think the city was once in that state.
Baltimore is currently undergoing the same demographic & socioeconomic shift that DC went through back in the early 2000's to get to where it's at today.
These things don't happen over night, they take time, investment and patience.
its not the same. DC is the seat of the national government and was seeing record crime high that wer extraordinary but crime was high and rising everywhere. New Orleans would post the highest homicide rate EVER of any US city in 1994. The difference in Baltimore is all coastal cities are seeing rising tides except Bmore. Although BMORe is getting some white Millenials in thru the gates most of the physical area of Baltimore is still in decline outside fo the areas around the harbor and bits of southeastern Baltimore. Baltimore is seeing stagnating or rising crime levels in a nation going the other way and a particularly bad turnover rate amongst its top official DC didnt really have.
Also DC was never as blue collar a town as Baltimore. Much of Baltimore's populace is reliant on manufacturing logistics and other old schooly work and that isnt where the country is headed. DCs industries were on the rise when it was declining.
People who talk as if BMORE is just bound to get better confuse me. It's very obvious the city is at a bit of a fork in the road. Things could very well get better-and quickly- or they could EASILY get worse.
You can have culture with transplants. Look at NYC and California. The difference, IMO, is that DC is a short-term transplant city for many. Lots of people move there for internships or short-term government jobs, then return home. Obviously millions are remaining as the region is booming, but I think there is a stronger revolving door of transplants that other transplant-heavy cities don't have.
Also, NYC and LA are some of the top transplant cities in the country (even the world). They attract people for all sorts of reasons from high-paying finance/healthcare/government jobs to creative jobs like artists/musicians/entertainment industry people and everything in between, all of which are supported by the service sector to some degree. OTOH, DC is government-heavy. DC has a strong tech and healthcare economy as well, which are good for the higher end, but when drawing factor is government work, you're not really getting the type of creative people that make for a more interesting local culture. DC has a very strong culture with the AA community that's been living there for decades, and there is a growing Central American population AFAIK, but it's still not the same.
I would definitely say Baltimore has a stronger local culture than DC, but that's not to say DC entirely lacks local culture. It still has more than most other major cities in the US, but it's hard to stack up against local culture from Boston, NYC, Philly, and Baltimore. Arguably, they're the top cities for local culture in the country along with a select few others. And no, this is not white washing culture before someone brings that up. Boston has a real Chinatown and a heavy Brazilian/Portuguese speaking population. NYC has a strong everything culture of all nationalities/ethnicity. Philly, in my experiences, is attracting a lot of Puerto Ricans and immigrants from the DR are becoming kinda prominent, as well as having a Chinatown, plus a Vietnamese area and a heavy Mexican presence in South Philly which is still prominently Italian and Irish but changing with immigrants moving into some parts of South Philly. Baltimore I'm less positive about, since I don't have as much first-hand experience there, but I know the region as a whole has a strong local culture in food, language, etc. DC has Chinatown and receives immigrants from all over the world, but as of today, I just don't see it as having the same local culture as the rest of the NE Corridor.
Boston has a strong Irish-American/Italian-American/West Indian culture too.
Agreed with most of what is said here. And Baltimore does have a stronger culture which does transcend ethnic/racial lines despite it being a less major city. It's an older city so that helps too. The government is a transient industry by nature but the Federal government/legal industry workforce percentages have been on the decline every year. I believe the current number is at 25% for the government.
I will say that, our city is becoming more creative but for those who strive to best in their creative fields or want to be GLOBALLY known, they don't really move here because you've already got LA and NYC. If I were a striving artist/sports person from elsewhere, DC would not be one of my priority cities for this.
The thing we need to get good at is convincing creatives to stay and continue developing our entertainment/creative/sports industry especially when there is no incentive or added benefit on their part. I think that's the harder part and actually imo more worth it then convincing creatives to move out to the area especially to the city when again, LA or NYC are better options for their careers despite more people in those cities competing for those acting jobs or for promotion placements for their music.
Anyhow, I do see a local overlapping culture developing in the DC and in the area as a whole but mostly among my generation.
I will say that our city and our region will start to become a little bit the NYC Tri-State area in terms of ethnic diversity as time goes on since we do grow faster and are adding people from all parts of the world (Africa, Caribbean, Asia, Europe- Mostly Russians and some Eastern Europeans, South Americans/Caribbean Latinos, etc) especially with the increasing private sector in our city/region.
As for our Chinatown, it's really lacking. The city should try to either move Chinatown to a different location or just get re name that neighborhood.
As for Baltimore, I think it's potential lies in trying to double down on it's strengths and move on from there. If it can do that then Baltimore will be fine. It's already in a nice location (40 mins from DC, 3 hrs from NYC, 2 hrs from Philly).
Last edited by MDfinest; 07-15-2019 at 08:19 PM..
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