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Every supertall in this decade has a legit economic story -- no ads.
Post 2008 there was a very conservative decade. But recently there has been a change, you think the economics of Detroit demand a 940ft tower, or do you think its more of a statement?
It’s not dead, the developer needs a tenant. You can’t build a supertall (especially in Dallas) without one. The building site has a fence around it with banners advertising for a corporate office.
Well it's been "proposed" for going on three years in a metro that has a booming economy, so you would think they wouldn't have a problem finding tenants. There hasn't been any news from the developers. I never saw where it was even going to be a 1000'+ tower, just said 70 stories. I think it was nothing but a concept for marketing. No work on FAA clearances, or plans submitted for city approvals....nothing.
Well it's been "proposed" for going on three years in a metro that has a booming economy, so you would think they wouldn't have a problem finding tenants. There hasn't been any news from the developers. I never saw where it was even going to be a 1000'+ tower, just said 70 stories. I think it was nothing but a concept for marketing. No work on FAA clearances, or plans submitted for city approvals....nothing.
The vast majority of the growth is happening in the suburbs. Demand isn’t high enough yet for a massive office building. That’s reflected in the recent growth of Downtown/Uptown. Just because the area is booming, doesn’t mean that same fast paced growth is happening everywhere. For years, suburban growth has fueled the Metroplex’s growth and companies have followed that growth. Uber has decided expand in the core of Dallas, that could change that. Large companies are looking at Downtown again. It’s just going to take time...
Post 2008 there was a very conservative decade. But recently there has been a change, you think the economics of Detroit demand a 940ft tower, or do you think its more of a statement?
That's not a supertall, but it seems to be in the statement category. Not by any office tenant however. PS, in August they said it might be nowhere near the height they projected before, or necessarily even taller than the RenCen...need to make a deal with a hotel developer first.
As for the change in the last year, what is that? In my region it's might even be a little in reverse...way less Chinese money than a couple years ago.
This thread seems to be fixated on demand, without realizing the special issues with supertalls.
That's not a supertall, but it seems to be in the statement category. Not by any office tenant however. PS, in August they said it might be nowhere near the height they projected before, or necessarily even taller than the RenCen...need to make a deal with a hotel developer first.
As for the change in the last year, what is that? In my region it's might even be a little in reverse...way less Chinese money than a couple years ago.
This thread seems to be fixated on demand, without realizing the special issues with supertalls.
After 2008 investment in real estate kind of took a hit. Its not exactly a decade but if you notice there really hasn't been a massive amount of Supertalls at all.
Again not a supertall but do you think OKC needed the Devon Tower? Real Estate is dirt cheap, The company wanted to have the tallest building in the state and be a landmark in OKC.
Now obviously bigger cities mean the signature tower needs to be taller. So yeah other than NYC or SF its ego/advertising that drives height not the lack of real estate.
Also that's why the John Hancock Tower is taller than the Pru in Boston, not because they needed a 780ft tower its because they wanted to be the tallest in the Commonwealth.
Basically you need a company that wants to be the big deal in town for a 1000ft tower to be built.
There are other drivers to height...views, proximity to transit, proximity to an existing office. But every actual supertall (even the ones who did it with cheap spires) is in a case where the financial side seems to make sense.
I find Dallas the most likely of the ones you mentioned. DFW is the fourth largest metro area in the country (behind Chicago and the two megacities) and has a skyscraper 915' tall. Also, it's not far above the national average cost of living despite its massive size, which is a huge draw for many combined with its subtropical climate.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Nashville and Oklahoma City do one day too, even though they're not mentioned in the poll. Again, not far above the national average cost of living despite massive size, which is once again a huge draw for many combined with subtropical climate. Plus, OKC is even cheaper than Dallas and Nashville, OKC has a skyscraper of 844', and Nashville once had a failed proposal for a skyscraper over 1000' (during the Great Recession, it was downsized to 750' and relocated). Lastly, Nashville is one of the fastest-growing major cities in the entire country, along with its neighboring major cities (Murfreesboro and Clarksville).
With the Sun Belt fast-growing, I think they're poised for a bright (albeit very uncomfortable in summer) future. I'd find Charlotte second-most likely in the poll for this reason, as I severely doubt Austin will go much longer without severe population decline (thanks, rising threat of hurricanes!).
I find Dallas the most likely of the ones you mentioned. DFW is the fourth largest metro area in the country (behind Chicago and the two megacities) and has a skyscraper 915' tall. Also, it's not far above the national average cost of living despite its massive size, which is a huge draw for many combined with its subtropical climate.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Nashville and Oklahoma City do one day too, even though they're not mentioned in the poll. Again, not far above the national average cost of living despite massive size, which is once again a huge draw for many combined with subtropical climate. Plus, OKC is even cheaper than Dallas and Nashville, OKC has a skyscraper of 844', and Nashville once had a failed proposal for a skyscraper over 1000' (during the Great Recession, it was downsized to 750' and relocated). Lastly, Nashville is one of the fastest-growing major cities in the entire country, along with its neighboring major cities (Murfreesboro and Clarksville).
With the Sun Belt fast-growing, I think they're poised for a bright (albeit very uncomfortable in summer) future. I'd find Charlotte second-most likely in the poll for this reason, as I severely doubt Austin will go much longer without severe population decline (thanks, rising threat of hurricanes!).
Is this a joke??? Austin is NOT on the coast and at threat of loosing population due to hurricanes, lol.
There are other drivers to height...views, proximity to transit, proximity to an existing office. But every actual supertall (even the ones who did it with cheap spires) is in a case where the financial side seems to make sense.
There is only 6 Supertalls outside New York and Chicago so the sample size is small, but the BOA tower in Atlanta absolutely fits the bill it’s was a 1023 foot tower is a practically empty Midtown Atlanta in 1992. There was no geographic reason to go that tall they went that tall to be the Tallesr building in the South.
Also there isn’t an inherent difference between a 940ft vanity tower and a 1000 ft vanity tower.
Of all the CBD's in the country, Dallas ranks as number one in most available land. I don't doubt that we'll have new construction, however, it might take a while before we see a supertall.
On the bright side, the area around the downtown area is booming and the last vacant office building is being renovated to the largest mixed-use development in the state.
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