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View Poll Results: San Francisco or Philadelphia
San Francisco 72 53.73%
Philadelphia 62 46.27%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2019, 03:13 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,166 posts, read 9,058,487 times
Reputation: 10506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
That's 100% true, I host visitors all the time and they have an awesome time, SF is a world class destination, but homelessness has become a major QOL issue in some areas of the city and in some areas of the Bay Area.

It's a sad irony that a region whose wealth is rising rapidly yet so is it's number of homeless.
Similarly, Philadelphia's Achilles heel is violent crime.

There are those here who still assert that if you venture beyond Greater Center City, you take your life into your hands. That's definitely not the case, says this Germantowner who happens to live on a block where four people have gotten killed in the six years I've lived here (do the math - that's a pretty high ratio), and the city has managed to shake off its "Killadelphia" nickname thanks in part to good police work that helped drive down the murder rate throughout the previous mayor's term in office, but the numbers have been rising again the past couple of years, and that's got some people here worried.

 
Old 07-24-2019, 07:03 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,379 posts, read 9,331,923 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
For many reasons, a major one being PHL is sandwiched in between Greater NYC and the DMV, as well as the fact that SF has the opposite situation, where it's the defacto big city for hundreds of miles in every direction, as well as the sheer internationalism everywhere in the Bay Area, SFO has nearly 8 times as many foreign commercial airlines as PHL:
I'm sure and I don't have stats, but I would bet a good chunk of air traffic from Newark (EWR) is from the Philadelphia area. When I lived in Philadelphia I almost always flew out of Newark because I fly United.

SF still has more routes obviously, but I think between PHL and EWR Philadelphia has great coverage. PHL need a direct route to Asia though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Philly has much better European connectivity via routes

SF does much better in the Asian market; which outside of Qatar doesn't exist from PHL
American is slowly transitioning major Euro flights from JFK to PHL, Prague, Zurich, Dublin and several others. I hope the trend continues, and I hope PHL continues to improve the airport experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Similarly, Philadelphia's Achilles heel is violent crime.

There are those here who still assert that if you venture beyond Greater Center City, you take your life into your hands. That's definitely not the case, says this Germantowner who happens to live on a block where four people have gotten killed in the six years I've lived here (do the math - that's a pretty high ratio), and the city has managed to shake off its "Killadelphia" nickname thanks in part to good police work that helped drive down the murder rate throughout the previous mayor's term in office, but the numbers have been rising again the past couple of years, and that's got some people here worried.
I think poverty is another one. Having a 25%+ poverty rate and having the highest rate among the nations largest cities is a troubling statistic (as you know). I think that violent crime issue correlates with the high poverty, as least somewhat.

In the end, the area where SF clearly excels is its economy and international presence in the the tech community. Philadelphia as a metro region is more on par with the Bay area than the economy of strictly each city.

But All other measurements of desirability (according to that list) are easily debatable between the 2 cities and metros.

Last edited by cpomp; 07-24-2019 at 07:11 AM.. Reason: edit
 
Old 07-24-2019, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,270 posts, read 10,593,477 times
Reputation: 8823
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I think poverty is another one. Having a 25%+ poverty rate and having the highest rate among the nations largest cities is a troubling statistic (as you know). I think that violent crime issue correlates with the high poverty, as least somewhat.
For sure, although I think more specific to that is what we've all discussed as "deep" poverty, since many cities (including NYC and Boston) actually have overall poverty rates not all that far off from Philly. Philadelphia (and next door Camden) needs to continue to really focus on elevating its most economically challenged neighborhoods as much as possible.

Regarding SF, it's important to note that a truly normalized or "actual" measure of poverty would put San Francisco's poverty rate much higher than the non-adjusted measure of 11%. This BBC article is very telling:

Quote:
A family getting by on $117,400 (£87,970) in one US city can now be considered 'low income', according to government figures. How can that be the case?

That workers with six-figure salaries could be considered "poor" is something that might surprise many people.

But taking into account income and housing costs that is the reality for some families - who may be eligible for housing assistance - according to a recent report from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development.

In San Francisco and nearby San Mateo and Marin Counties it said $117,400 for a family of four was "low income", while $73,300 (£54,900) was "very low income" - the highest figures anywhere in the country.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44725026
 
Old 07-24-2019, 09:45 AM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,522,377 times
Reputation: 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Similarly, Philadelphia's Achilles heel is violent crime.

There are those here who still assert that if you venture beyond Greater Center City, you take your life into your hands. That's definitely not the case, says this Germantowner who happens to live on a block where four people have gotten killed in the six years I've lived here (do the math - that's a pretty high ratio), and the city has managed to shake off its "Killadelphia" nickname thanks in part to good police work that helped drive down the murder rate throughout the previous mayor's term in office, but the numbers have been rising again the past couple of years, and that's got some people here worried.
I think this is a problem for the entire 95 corridor with the exception of Boston, and New York City.
 
Old 07-24-2019, 12:38 PM
 
Location: In the heights
37,131 posts, read 39,380,764 times
Reputation: 21217
*Economy - San Francisco
*Cost Of Living - Philadelphia
*Amenities - Not sure what this would be
*Scenery - San Francisco
*Culture - Philadelphia, slightly
*Diversity - San Francisco
*Nightlife - Philadelphia by a decent margin
*Infrastructure - Philadelphia. SF has more u/c in the near term, but Philadelphia has a network that are a good basis for dramatic improvements (i.e. run Regional Rail and NJT like a S-Bahn / RER
*Institutions - Philadelphia if we’re talking museums and performing arts institutions and the line
*Crime - San Francisco by a decent margin
*Politics/Government - San Francisco
*Weather - San Francisco
*Location - If we’re talking about scenery as a separate category, then Philadelphia
*Outlook For The 2020s + - Philadelphia, probably. Its population growth has been accelerating and there are a lot of neighborhoods that have been improving with many close-in urban neighborhoods that are seeing investment after decades of neglect. It’s got a lot of room for growth without needing to push out a bunch of people and without the kind of ridiculous cost-of-living that SF and the Bay Area has.
 
Old 07-25-2019, 01:15 AM
 
Location: So California
8,704 posts, read 11,116,346 times
Reputation: 4794
pfffffsss
 
Old 04-05-2020, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
142 posts, read 86,241 times
Reputation: 85
Bet it goes into homeless, poop and COL and a hater with all else to defending more one city with dislike, use of the tr__l word and thread might be doomed.

One city is seeking recognition it feels long deserved but over-shadowed. But both have major issues that can be thrown into a battle.

Basically, then a SF vs Philly thread and saying first off that one is far superior. Thread could derail quickly or surprise?

Some will defend their regional city in a Northeast vs California thing too. Not to mention CSAs brought in. Even though you mean city propers alone.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 05:18 AM
 
Location: North Raleigh x North Sacramento
5,820 posts, read 5,627,677 times
Reputation: 7123
San Francisco without a doubt is the most overrated Top 5 city by far and is probably the most overrated Top 10 city...

If Philadelphia is looking to rebrand and grow SF would be the last city to model...
 
Old 04-05-2020, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,166 posts, read 9,058,487 times
Reputation: 10506
I have to date visited San Francisco exactly once, in 2006. (I have a friend, a former Penn grad student who grew up in West Chester, who lives there. A cousin and a couple I know live in Oakland, and I stayed with the couple in their lovely 1940s rancher high in the Oakland hills for two nights and with my cousin at her apartment in the flats for two.)

I thoroughly enjoyed my visit, which was tacked onto a trip to Seattle to visit my brother and just-born niece. But after I got back, I told my friends that if I were told I had to choose between spending the rest of my life in San Francisco and spending it in Seattle, I'd spend it in Seattle.

San Francisco is gorgeous, and there is no more spectacularly situated city in the United States. (Wait: Pittsburgh gives San Francisco a run for its money in that department.) But I found San Franciscans, or the few I met, off-putting, nice though they were.

It struck me that they were living in some sort of fantasyland and had an overinflated sense of their city's importance and virtues.

The lead headline in the San Francisco Chronicle the day I spent entirely in the city read: "S.F. officials move to stem African-American exodus."

City Hall was worried because the African-American share of the city's population had fallen by half - from 13 percent of the total to 6. And the ones who were leaving were the ones with money: they were heading across the Bay to Oakland.

Later that night, I popped into a bar in the Castro and wound up talking with a twentysomething young man who had recently moved there from Iowa. (Don't quote me, but I think this is where most young white gay San Franciscans come from.)

He told me he loved living there. When I asked him why, he replied, "It's so lively, it's so diverse..."

And as he went on after that, I thought to myself, "Yeah, and all the black folks are over there, in Oakland."

So are most of the poor folks. I get that in SF, "minority" means either Hispanic or Asian, but that makes the city as much of a statistical outlier as its median household income, which is on par with that of Fairfield County, Conn., home to many of New York City's most affluent suburbs.

And it hit me: I was in an affluent suburb full of self-satisfied people - the source of the "giant cloud of smug" that threatened "South Park" in that one episode that made fun of San Francisco and San Franciscans. It just happened to have the trappings of a large city.

San Francisco streets may have less of the kind of litter you throw in trash cans than Philadelphia, but I found more of the chronically homeless - human litter, if you will - up and down Market Street than I see on the streets and in the subway concourses of Philadelphia. (I recently ran across a Tweet in which someone said that they avoid riding BART because they run across human feces on the trains too often. That's not to say I've never encountered it in SEPTA's rapid transit system, but I've never run across it on a train yet.)

Like Manhattan, San Francisco is one of those cities where only the very rich and the very poor can afford to live - the latter thanks to subsidies. People like me, and that Penn-grad friend of mine once he lost his job in pharma, find living there difficult.

I suspect the San Franciscan who started this thread will be startled to discover that there exists someone out there who is not totally enthralled by "America's favorite city." (I think most New Yorkers probably do know that many do not regard the true outlier among American metropolises with (quoting myself in a Quora answer to a question about rivalry among the four biggest Northeast metropolises) "the slack-jawed awe they feel it deserves."

(And I should note at this point that more people move between New York and Philadelphia than between any two other American metropolises — and for about 25 years now, the flow has been net towards Philadelphia, consisting mainly of Brooklynites looking for big-city living at a price they can still afford.)

I also said in that answer that because Philadelphia knows loss on a scale none of these other cities have experienced, it may well be the only city of the four that truly has its head screwed on straight. Add San Francisco to that and make it "of the five." (And yes, there was that earthquake in 1906. I was referring to status and influence.) Yes, it has a high poverty rate. Yes, it's an emerging global city, not an established one. Yes, crime - which had fallen to levels not seen in some 30 years during the previous mayor's term in office - is back on the upswing, or at least violent crime is, and that has many of us here worried that it will blunt the momentum this city has had since 1987, when the completion of the first skyscraper taller than City Hall gave the city permission to build a real skyline. But this city isn't overrated - it's still underrated, and nobody underrates it more than the locals.

I'll end this post with the same song lyric I said captures the Philly addytood almost perfectly in that Quora answer. Eagles linebacker Jason Kelce (who has a brother who plays for the 49ers) led hundreds of thousands of cheering Iggles fans in it after the Birds won their first NFL championship since 1960 three years ago:

"We're from Philly. F**kin' Philly. No one likes us. We don't care."
 
Old 04-05-2020, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7,736 posts, read 5,514,664 times
Reputation: 5978
If the cities were people, SF would be Philly's little brother. While SF would have a slight drug problem, Philly is a full blown alcoholic lol. Both are great cities.
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