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Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester
But not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is mostly about TOD.
So regarding TOD, I personally see DC and it's nodes as the example/standard for "modern" TOD in the U.S.. I have yet to experience Vancouver so I could not compare.
There are numerous TOD projects either completed or proposed to take place in the coming years on every spoke of the Metro wheel. This doesn't even include Purple Line, which will be run by MTA but connect four spokes of the Metro wheel together on the northern end.
These are all current or projected mini-downtowns of TOD in the DC area (all are outside of DC proper):
Rockville
Twinbrook
White Flint
Grovsenor-Strathmore
Bethesda
Connecticut Ave
Silver Spring
College Park
Riverdale Park
New Carrollton
Largo
Branch Ave
Suitland
Huntington
Eisenhower Ave
Potomac Yard (infill station for Amazon)
Crystal City
Pentagon City
Springfield
King Street
West Falls Church
4 stations in Tysons
2 stations in Reston
Herndon
Innovation Center
Ashburn
Last edited by the resident09; 08-07-2019 at 12:54 PM..
Interesting observation. Are you referring to just subways or also regional heavy rail and LRT's? Toronto is probably unique in N.A in its streetcar system. If you include it as a LRT its the second busiest in N.A after Guadalara's, but most of its lines are lacking ROW and extreme number of stops naw away at a true LRT claim. In two years the Eglinton Crosstown will open which will be a true LRT line with 25 stations mostly underground linked with existing subway lines. It will be a pretty vital transit line servicing a major east west arterial in mid town Toronto.
I should have been more clear, definitely just the subways. Development, especially along Line 1 between St. Clair and and Finch, reminds me quite a bit of some of the TOD in DC like the Rosslyn-Ballston spine and to a slightly lesser extent, the Red Line between Friendship Heights and Rockville.
The Metrorail isnt very modern at all. They have some newish trains which for the time being are in OK shape (7000s), but the rest of the fleet is dated. They also struggle big time with organizing headways which points at an outdated control system. Theres frequent malfunctions of signals and other systems in the general infrastructure as well. If that system is a role model for anyone, may god have mercy with our souls.
To the subject at hand, yes the Metro is huge in development here and its the cause of a phenomenon I find quite distasteful ie the “urban island” ie a bunch of high rises with chain restaurants and a super market placed in the middle of hitherto suburban or rural areas. Its generic, tasteless and almost destined to become a blight once those apartments are viewed as dated and prices drop.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,568,606 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit
The Metrorail isnt very modern at all. They have some newish trains which for the time being are in OK shape (7000s), but the rest of the fleet is dated. They also struggle big time with organizing headways which points at an outdated control system. Theres frequent malfunctions of signals and other systems in the general infrastructure as well. If that system is a role model for anyone, may god have mercy with our souls.
The 7000 series trains make up about 60% of the fleet now. By 2024 the 8000's will start rolling in to replace the rest of the older ones.
The Metrorail isnt very modern at all. They have some newish trains which for the time being are in OK shape (7000s), but the rest of the fleet is dated. They also struggle big time with organizing headways which points at an outdated control system. Theres frequent malfunctions of signals and other systems in the general infrastructure as well. If that system is a role model for anyone, may god have mercy with our souls.
To the subject at hand, yes the Metro is huge in development here and its the cause of a phenomenon I find quite distasteful ie the “urban island” ie a bunch of high rises with chain restaurants and a super market placed in the middle of hitherto suburban or rural areas. Its generic, tasteless and almost destined to become a blight once those apartments are viewed as dated and prices drop.
OK SHAPE? The railcars aren't even three years old. LOL
Yeah and the first seats are showing rips and the polished steel look of the back of the seats and other surfaces is increasingly dirty. Guess what, new and clean is going to be old and decrepit sooner rather than later if you take WMATAs approach to cleaning and maintenance.
Yeah and the first seats are showing rips and the polished steel look of the back of the seats and other surfaces is increasingly dirty. Guess what, new and clean is going to be old and decrepit sooner rather than later if you take WMATAs approach to cleaning and maintenance.
The Metrorail isnt very modern at all. They have some newish trains which for the time being are in OK shape (7000s), but the rest of the fleet is dated. They also struggle big time with organizing headways which points at an outdated control system. Theres frequent malfunctions of signals and other systems in the general infrastructure as well. If that system is a role model for anyone, may god have mercy with our souls.
To the subject at hand, yes the Metro is huge in development here and its the cause of a phenomenon I find quite distasteful ie the “urban island” ie a bunch of high rises with chain restaurants and a super market placed in the middle of hitherto suburban or rural areas. Its generic, tasteless and almost destined to become a blight once those apartments are viewed as dated and prices drop.
Obviously your view of DC's TOD and Metro are less than positive. A couple things:
I do find, in some ways, the DC area's Metro-induced TOD is rather generic in some ways, especially compared to the beautiful old neighborhoods -- mostly rowhouse areas -- on Capitol Hill, Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, etc. However I seriously doubt they will become "blight" any decade soon. The fact that many of these TOD's create mixed-use, Main Street-type walking districts accessible to rail heads should be something that sustains them for many years to come, I don't care whether they are supposedly in the middle of suburban sprawl or rural areas or not. The alternative is to have typical American, freeway-induced single-use cul-de-sacs sprawling across rural lands. Is this what you'd rather have?
As to the Metro system itself. Obviously the system has had serious growing pains, in terms of aging, and in some cases, poorly maintained infrastructure for several years leading to a number of full service shutdowns for days. However the system seems to be turning the corner. And I have ridden many different rail systems across the country, and in several foreign countries, and I must say that the new 7000-series trains are the most futuristic I've ever seen. They are bright, comfortable, accessible, smooth riding (which excellent fast and balanced propulsion systems), and excellent wayfinding and graphics, punctuated by the most modernistic and informational closed circuit video system around.
And whatever one thinks of the uniform architecture of Metro stations (which I find very tasteful if not under-lit in some underground locations), they are kept fastidiously clean and are safe environments -- Metro ranks high compared to modern-age systems contemporary to itself; and let's not even begin to talk about those old legacy systems like NYC, Chicago, Boston and Philly, which aren't even in the same solar system in terms of cleanliness and safety compared to Metro. DC stations are open and accessible -- the only knock may be that escalators do break down from time to time (I was on one that stopped with a crowd of people riding it) and the farecard machines aren't the most user friendly in the world...
Despite Metro's problems -- including the safety issues leading to an unfortunate high death rate over the years -- we have to remember that, aside from generating incredible amounts of TOD smart growth, the system is an amazing workhourse carrying the 3rd largest passenger loads (just recently slipping behind many-times larger Chicago and its L trains) in the country. Many stations, especially in downtown DC, remain packed to the gills throughout the day and especially during rush hour; but Metro moves these crowds at high speeds and safely throughout the metro area. I recently rode the Red Line during rush hour from Rockville, MD to Gallery Place -- a distance of about 15 miles in 32 minutes, in an 8-car train that was full by the time we even cracked the DC border. It was a train set of 7000s and my ONLY beef about these new trains is there is a several seconds delay -- usually 5 seconds or more, between the train's stopping and the doors opening. Overall that adds wasted time to the trip.
I spend about 2 hours every day on these trains because Im a nutter doing a suburb to suburb commute via downtown DC every day by Metro. Short of Metro employees you wont find too many people with more exposure to that system.
I don’t believe people using Metro once during a visit to DC or even those residents who use it on occasional weekend outings can really judge the system. The system shows its strengths and weaknesses over the course of time.
Using it over months and years you notice frequently reoccurring problems, e.g. signals at Stadium-Armory or the Rosslyn bottleneck. You realize schedule adherence is essentially nonexistent. In fact its almost at the level of buses which is hilarious given the only traffic they face consists of their own trains.
You also notice that many train cars are extremely dirty by 6 pm in the evening (cleaning clearly being only a once a day thing at most even when a floor has been absolutely flooded by sticky fluids and theres pizza remnants all over). You notice that “safety” is really a matter of luck and avoiding obvious trouble spots (Green line in SE for example). Ive seen youths in gang attire fronting each other even at Metro Center during rush hour though. I wouldn’t call it unsafe, but crimes certainly occur regularly.
With regard to development, I would indeed prefer farms and SFHs about 20 miles from downtown. Satellite cities have been known in Europe for several decades with mostly negative experiences. Theres nothing remotely attractive or interesting to living in a 1 bedroom apartment in Rockville or Reston. These are consolation prizes and once the shine is off the fake marble counter they ll be rented to folks who cant afford good and once you have 10-15% lower income folks in a high rise that place is going to slide in a big way.
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