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Old 08-22-2019, 08:48 AM
 
413 posts, read 323,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeignCrunch View Post
Don't know what the nice people in Philadelphia are doing these days, but the alternative to not eating excrement is not, in fact, stepping in it instead. As a very general rule, cosmopolitanism requires one to avoid both eating and stepping in poo.
Agreed. But that is typically beyond the mental capacity of Neanderthals.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,442,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think one is really above the other. That's like asking whether having an NFL team is more meaningful than having an NBA team.
Well, the NBA's revenue trails both the NFL and the MLB. Similarly, ballets don't come close to orchestras. It's a much much much bigger deal to not have an orchestra than not have a ballet. In Cleveland's case, they have one of the best orchestras and a ballet, so I'm not sure how that's looked down upon. Arts offerings in Cleveland are still one of the top 10-12 in the country, taken as a whole.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,442,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
If we're ranking classic performing arts, we have to value the symphony, ballet and opera.
I would argue opera really isn't much of an art at all.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,095 posts, read 34,702,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Well, the NBA's revenue trails both the NFL and the MLB. Similarly, ballets don't come close to orchestras. It's a much much much bigger deal to not have an orchestra than not have a ballet.
Revenues aren't an apples-to-apples comparison. Ballet is physically demanding and there are physical limitations to how many times a dancer can perform, which is why ballet seasons tend to be very short. Orchestras, by comparison, perform perhaps 3 times per week for much of the calendar year. The two can't really be compared this way.

It's not like demand doesn't exist to see ABT. But Misty Copeland can't dance 3 days per week for an entire year even if the demand exists to see that because her toes would end up being amputated. The poor woman already has a metal plate screwed into her leg.

Anyway, there's no validity to the claim that "it's a much much bigger deal to not have an orchestra than not to have a ballet" because most large, sophisticated markets have both. Again, it's like saying it's a much bigger deal for Los Angeles not to have the Rams or the Chargers than it is for them not to have the Lakers or Clippers. That's not a verifiable claim, and in any event, most large cities have all major sports teams, so the absence of even one is always notable.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,095 posts, read 34,702,478 times
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Why ballet companies can't perform as often as orchestras.

Quote:
Here’s one way to look at it: Have a look at what happens to a ballerina’s feet. I’m not going to post a picture, because it’s not for the weak of stomach, but here’s a link to a Google image search.

That kind of damage comes from spending hours a day training. They move as if they don’t weigh anything at all, but that’s a carefully crafted illusion: They move that way because they are intensely strong. They combine that strength with a grace that comes from practicing the same moves over and over and over until it looks as if it’s weightless.

It breaks a body. Most ballet dancers are completely shot by their mid-20s, and many will suffer lifelong disabilities from the effort.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ballet_n_5527198

Do we also need an explainer on why professional boxers can't perform as often as baseball players do?
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,166 posts, read 9,058,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Revenues aren't an apples-to-apples comparison. Ballet is physically demanding and there are physical limitations to how many times a dancer can perform, which is why ballet seasons tend to be very short. Orchestras, by comparison, perform perhaps 3 times per week for much of the calendar year. The two can't really be compared this way.

It's not like demand doesn't exist to see ABT. But Misty Copeland can't dance 3 days per week for an entire year even if the demand exists to see that because her toes would end up being amputated. The poor woman already has a metal plate screwed into her leg.

Anyway, there's no validity to the claim that "it's a much much bigger deal to not have an orchestra than not to have a ballet" because most large, sophisticated markets have both. Again, it's like saying it's a much bigger deal for Los Angeles not to have the Rams or the Chargers than it is for them not to have the Lakers or Clippers. That's not a verifiable claim, and in any event, most large cities have all major sports teams, so the absence of even one is always notable.
I think I made reference to "at least two of the four major spectator sports (and three of the five if you add soccer)" above, but the following cities I would consider major lack NBA franchises. Those with asterisks also lack an NFL team:

Baltimore (the franchise moved down the road to Washington)
Cincinnati (the franchise moved to Kansas City, which shared it with Omaha for its first three seasons)
Kansas City (the franchise moved there from Cincinnati and moved from it to Sacramento)
Pittsburgh
St. Louis*

And the following sizable cities have only an NBA franchise:

Oklahoma City
Sacramento
Salt Lake City

Los Angeles got its NFL team back from St. Louis, but San Diego is about to lose its team to Las Vegas.

And there are a bunch of sizable cities with no NHL franchises.

I think my two-teams threshold is more universally applicable.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:38 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,755,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinsFan1975 View Post
Agreed. But that is typically beyond the mental capacity of Neanderthals.
OT but Neanderthals, our closest homo relatives, so close in fact that millions of us carry their DNA, were more advanced than old stereotypes of cave men.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:46 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,755,490 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Well, the NBA's revenue trails both the NFL and the MLB. Similarly, ballets don't come close to orchestras. It's a much much much bigger deal to not have an orchestra than not have a ballet. In Cleveland's case, they have one of the best orchestras and a ballet, so I'm not sure how that's looked down upon. Arts offerings in Cleveland are still one of the top 10-12 in the country, taken as a whole.
The Cleveland Orch, (and it can not be argued... ever) is one of the best orchestras on the planet. Period. A stunning list of super star music directors: George Szell, Maazel, von Dohnanyi and now Welser-Most made it that way and keep it that way.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:54 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,755,490 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I would argue opera really isn't much of an art at all.
You've never seen a Met production in person have you?

You don't know anyone who has had serious vocal training do you...and all of the rigorous physicality involved.

It's like arguing that dancers( well, good ones) are not athletes which, of course, they are.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:04 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,755,490 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Why ballet companies can't perform as often as orchestras.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ballet_n_5527198

Do we also need an explainer on why professional boxers can't perform as often as baseball players do?
Consider, too, that men in ballet have to, oftentimes, lift their women partners. And it means lifting them with grace and agility like it's the most natural thing in the world. These men can never show any straining, nor grimacing or behave like these women weigh more than a feather.
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