Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've never seen any pics of Norfolk's skyline till now, but that one actually doesn't look bad for a smaller city IMO. Thanks for posting that pic! Am I right that supposedly that Norfolk set up some streetcar/tram line, albeit I think it was a small line or 2 that runs within that city and into like a few nearby areas?
Yeah it would be fine if this weren't the urban center of a metro area of like 1.8 million. In that context, it's pretty small, IMO. They do have a light rail line. Proposed expansions haven't gotten too far.
Yeah it would be fine if this weren't the urban center of a metro area of like 1.8 million. In that context, it's pretty small, IMO. They do have a light rail line. Proposed expansions haven't gotten too far.
I think Virginia Beach stole its thunder so to speak. If growth remained concentrated in Norfolk it would look a lot bigger and maybe even have some National recognition and compete with the like of Raleigh.
Yeah it would be fine if this weren't the urban center of a metro area of like 1.8 million. In that context, it's pretty small, IMO. They do have a light rail line. Proposed expansions haven't gotten too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94
I think Virginia Beach stole its thunder so to speak. If growth remained concentrated in Norfolk it would look a lot bigger and maybe even have some National recognition and compete with the like of Raleigh.
I live in Virginia Beach and the way this area developed is an interesting study. It's different than any metro area I've ever seen anywhere else. It's not like a core city with smaller suburbs, nor is it a metro-plex like Dallas-Ft Worth or the Twin Cities with two major cities and a bunch of smaller suburbs. It's literally a bunch of major cities, none of which are truly the principle city in the area and no cities that are truly suburbs. They have unique history of their own.
Norfolk may have once been the principle city, and is probably the most urban of the Hampton Roads cities. But at ~240,000 it's about half the size of nearby Virginia Beach. It's downtown is actually pretty nice and there are some nice neighborhoods surrounding it but it's gets dicey fast in Norfolk. It's also got a gritty industrial feel and it along with Newport News make up one of the largest ports in the U.S.
Virginia Beach is very suburban and wasn't an incorporated city until the 1960s. I believe there are about 450,000 people in this city and if I'm not mistaken that makes it the most populated municipality in Virginia. I'm from Colorado and this city actually really reminds me a lot of Colorado Springs, just beach instead of mountains. They are both military and tourism driven, suburban, and a smaller downtowns for cities of their size. Some may consider VB a suburb on Norfolk, but given it has its own distinct identity and is so much larger than Norfolk I don't really buy it.
Then you have Chesapeake, which is this massive swath of land that is basically the size of a small planet. It's also pretty suburban but there are some gritty maritime industrial areas too. I think Chesapeake has as many people as Norfolk but it's an entirely different kind of city. Norfolk is a classic East Coast city, generally pretty dense and doesn't sprawl. Chesapeake sprawls.
There's also Suffolk and Portsmouth and I haven't even mentioned the Peninsula cities. So yeah...no real principle city, just a bunch of moderately large cities clustered together. It's far from perfect but I like it here.
Corpus Christi, TX, which very few people even know about, has a great skyline for a metro area under 500k. Especially with the seawall, the marina, the Harbor Bridge, and the USS Lexington right next to it. I think it's actually one of the more unique skylines in the US that is easily identifiable.
Tucson's skyline from the West or even up in the Foothills (NE of Downtown) is pretty nice. But from the West, it contrasts nicely against Mt. Lemmon and the Rincons. Especially when those are snowcapped and are so close to town (45 min to top or so).
I live in Virginia Beach and the way this area developed is an interesting study. It's different than any metro area I've ever seen anywhere else. It's not like a core city with smaller suburbs, nor is it a metro-plex like Dallas-Ft Worth or the Twin Cities with two major cities and a bunch of smaller suburbs. It's literally a bunch of major cities, none of which are truly the principle city in the area and no cities that are truly suburbs. They have unique history of their own.
Norfolk may have once been the principle city, and is probably the most urban of the Hampton Roads cities. But at ~240,000 it's about half the size of nearby Virginia Beach. It's downtown is actually pretty nice and there are some nice neighborhoods surrounding it but it's gets dicey fast in Norfolk. It's also got a gritty industrial feel and it along with Newport News make up one of the largest ports in the U.S.
Virginia Beach is very suburban and wasn't an incorporated city until the 1960s. I believe there are about 450,000 people in this city and if I'm not mistaken that makes it the most populated municipality in Virginia. I'm from Colorado and this city actually really reminds me a lot of Colorado Springs, just beach instead of mountains. They are both military and tourism driven, suburban, and a smaller downtowns for cities of their size. Some may consider VB a suburb on Norfolk, but given it has its own distinct identity and is so much larger than Norfolk I don't really buy it.
Then you have Chesapeake, which is this massive swath of land that is basically the size of a small planet. It's also pretty suburban but there are some gritty maritime industrial areas too. I think Chesapeake has as many people as Norfolk but it's an entirely different kind of city. Norfolk is a classic East Coast city, generally pretty dense and doesn't sprawl. Chesapeake sprawls.
There's also Suffolk and Portsmouth and I haven't even mentioned the Peninsula cities. So yeah...no real principle city, just a bunch of moderately large cities clustered together. It's far from perfect but I like it here.
What pass for ”cities” in Hampton Roads would be counties full of suburban neighborhoods in any other metro area in the country. And that's how most of those cities were established. Va Beach was a merger of the Town of Va Beach and Princess Anne County. The city of Chesapeake was formed as a merger of South Norfolk with Norfolk County, Suffolk merged with Nansemond County, Newport News gobbled up Warwick County, and Hampton swallowed up Elizabeth City County. They are ”cities” in name only. Really their forms are much more like suburban and rural counties than cities.
Imagine if Fairfax County incorporated itself as a city with nearly twice the population of Washington, and then Fairfax is determined to be the principal city of that metro area. Or if Chesterfield County became a city with more than 100,000 people more than Richmond. Seems silly, but that's what happened in Tidewater.
Corpus Christi, TX, which very few people even know about, has a great skyline for a metro area under 500k. Especially with the seawall, the marina, the Harbor Bridge, and the USS Lexington right next to it. I think it's actually one of the more unique skylines in the US that is easily identifiable.
Location: New Orleans ⏩ Houston ⏩ Seattle ⏩ New Orleans ⏩ Houston ⏹
58 posts, read 43,862 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabetx
Corpus Christi, TX, which very few people even know about, has a great skyline for a metro area under 500k. Especially with the seawall, the marina, the Harbor Bridge, and the USS Lexington right next to it. I think it's actually one of the more unique skylines in the US that is easily identifiable.
It's still the business (and cultural?) center of the region though, no?
Yes. Virginia Beach is simply the incorporation of Princess Anne County into one entity. It is the largest city of Virginia on paper because of that. It is not the cultural or business center of anything. It has a manufactured attempt at a downtown core that isn't terrible, but by no means organic, or urban. It is a perfect example of how large land areas make city population deceiving, and why city pop should not be used as a comparison metric....for anything.
Norfolk is the primary urban and cultural core of the Hampton Roads area. The creation of Virginia Beach as an entity, and competing for tax dollars in investments etc is the reason the area struggles to have an identity. As is the case with any metro area where the suburbs have as much regional pull as the core city(ie Phoenix, Detroit, Jacksonville etc.)
It's still the business (and cultural?) center of the region though, no?
I think it depends on how you look at it. Industrially for sure, as it's a more urban/industrial/port city. There are several shipyards along the waterfront. Virginia Beach has its own identity though and that compared with its size (I'm aware of the history but I'm less of a "true city"/density/MSA/CSA purist than most are around here) in my estimation are why it isn't a suburb of Norfolk.
Another critical reason is identity. I'm from Denver and people who are from the suburbs of Denver often say they're from Denver. Most of the Denver area suburbs are inextricably tied to Denver, identify with Denver, may be full of people who work in Denver, cheer for Denver sports teams, etc. Nobody in the Hampton Roads area says they're from Norfolk unless they're from Norfolk. Nobody in Virginia Beach says they're from Norfolk, they tell people they're from Virginia Beach. That's what I'm talking about when I say it's different from other metro areas. No city really is the "main" city in this area. It's just a group of cities each with their own independent unique identity. Outside of Virginia it wouldn't surprise me if Virginia Beach is a better known city than is Norfolk, despite its more suburban (even rural in some areas) feel. It's definitely a more photogenic city than Norfolk.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
