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Vibrancy is a whole 'nother matter, if you mean vibrancy like the biggest cities. It takes some combination of being a destination and/or a truly huge amount of density with a mix of uses -- the sort of density you can't get with the parking-heavy development much of the US is full of.
It’d probably be sensible to remove Philadelphia and maybe Boston and DC as well. Philadelphia’s Center City is more urban living focused than maybe any of the other cities removed save for parts of lower Manhattan, so its inclusion is odd.
It’d probably be sensible to remove Philadelphia and maybe Boston and DC as well. Philadelphia’s Center City is more urban living focused than maybe any of the other cities removed save for parts of lower Manhattan, so its inclusion is odd.
I made a 9th best Downtown in the country thread that basically eliminated NY, LA, Chi, Bos, Philly, SF, Seattle, DC and basically like 15 cities were brought up as possibilities as the next city.
After the top 8 (which itself has 4 tiers) it’s really a free for all of pretty similar downtowns.
I think downtown vibrancy has to be planned for cities outside the big 10 and cities that are land locked.
Having a large grid like St. Louis with a higher capacity can give the impression that the city has nothing going on. Another thing that has taken away from DT St. Louis development is Cortex in the Central West End and Clayton. Both are miles away from DT. Whereas if they where just on the edge of downtown, the area would be a lot more vibrant. St. Louis city would have to hit around 500k before downtown could pull itself into a stable position like Boston or Seattle without annexation. The msa population would have to be much larger to keep the surrounding suburbs functioning as well. That probably won't happen in my life time.
Nashville on the other hand seems to have branded itself super well and made it self a destination city. With recent growth, they've managed to fill in broadway for a few blocks downtown and the energy has grown all the way past Centenial park on westend. It's easier to create that type of environment in a smaller print area like Nashville vs a big old city like St louis that may have more main streets to fill in.
Imo, I think downtowns are different in older cities or cities that are more established. Dallas and Houston are examples of growing cities that have an established Downtown but due to the cities layout or grid, the capacity takes away from the appearance of vibrancy.
This is why I've removed Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco & New York from this poll.
I agree with the posters that Philadelphia and perhaps even Boston would have also been appropriate to therefore remove. Philadelphia's downtown living surpasses LA and is at a similar tier to Chicago and San Fransisco.
Imo, I think downtowns are different in older cities or cities that are more established. Dallas and Houston are examples of growing cities that have an established Downtown but due to the cities layout or grid, the capacity takes away from the appearance of vibrancy.
I think I get your point about wide streets - I don't know about Dallas, but Houston definitely has them, and worse still, save for Main Street, they're all one-way - but it seems to me that Houston also lacks a critical mass of downtown residents, at least if what I saw on the Sunday afternoon I walked around downtown Houston in late July is any guide.
Wide streets do tend to discourage pedestrian activity, though.
I agree with the posters that Philadelphia and perhaps even Boston would have also been appropriate to therefore remove. Philadelphia's downtown living surpasses LA and is at a similar tier to Chicago and San Fransisco.
I'd be super interested in learning about the specific things that are available to downtown San Francisco residents that place it above downtown Los Angeles. Can anyone educate me?
Density, vibrancy, mix of uses, tourism, retail, aesthetics....
Outside of LA homers, I'd guess the vast majority would say DTLA isn't on DTSF's level. DTLA has a lot of positives and it getting better every year, but it'll take decades more to be in the DTSF conversation.
I think I get your point about wide streets - I don't know about Dallas, but Houston definitely has them, and worse still, save for Main Street, they're all one-way - but it seems to me that Houston also lacks a critical mass of downtown residents, at least if what I saw on the Sunday afternoon I walked around downtown Houston in late July is any guide.
Wide streets do tend to discourage pedestrian activity, though.
Yeah the population of downtown Houston is around 10k. Up from 3k earlier this decade but still not nearly a large population. The wide one way streets is also something I discussed on here before and they continue all the way into Midtown. Houston has way to many of those. They could convert several of those to two way streets. I remember driving down those streets a couple years ago and people treated them like they were mini highways. Downtown DC has a couple of wide streets as well but they not in a high abundance like Houston.
Density, vibrancy, mix of uses, tourism, retail, aesthetics....
This is about one notch away from "vibe" or "it factor."
So nothing specific to mention then, other than it is more densely populated
We really need to solve this mystery as to why 2X as many people live in DTLA since its so much less desirable than DT SF!!
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