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I think that you should compare apples to apples which would be owning a car in both or not owning in either. Otherwise if you're adjusting for the different lifestyles then you need to compare the cost for the median size apartment in LA (which is the figure you quoted) with the cost for the same size apartment in NYC. I'd guess the same size house or apartment in NYC will be about $1,000 more than LA.
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I agree with trying for apples to apples. The car ownership bit is something that adds to both, so you can compare it either with or without. Without a car, NYC is substantially easier to get around than LA is for the most part and in many more neighborhoods. With a car, NYC is substantially more expensive than LA. Some people love having a car and some people don’t or are ambivalent, so it really depends on the person. The premise of which can you get more for your money is going to be highly dependent on what the person wants more of in general.
Why would I compare living in NYC with a car to living in LA with a car? The entire point for millions of people living in NYC is to take the subway and not own a car. So yeah. I'm going to compare NYC without a car to LA with a car. In NYC, a car is a luxury. In LA, a car is a necessity. So, if someone is considering moving to either city, they must own/maintain a car in LA which adds to their monthly costs. However, if they move to NYC, they won't have to worry about car ownership/maintenance. The majority of people in NYC do not own a car. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to factor in the COL with a car when comparing NYC to LA.
Studios are far more prevalent in NYC. It's a common thing to live in a studio here. In LA, most people are living in 1 bedrooms. Again, why would I compare something that's common in one city to something that's uncommon in the other.
The generic New Yorker is living in a studio without a car. Therefore, their monthly expenses are based on the median cost of a studio apartment + MTA 30-day Unlimited far.
The generic Angeleno is living in a 1 bedroom apartment with a car. Therefore, their monthly expenses are based on the median cost of a 1 bedroom apartment + ownership/maintenance of a car.
That's the apples to apples comparison. Apples to oranges comparison would be NYC 1 bed + car vs. LA 1 bed + car. Vice versa, apples to oranges comparison would by NYC studio + MTA pass vs. LA studio + LAMTA pass. Neither of those represents the typical lifestyle for a resident of the respective cities.
Some people do love having a car, yes. And those people likely are not living in NYC, where car owners are in the minority of the population. If they enjoyed owning a car, they would be better suited for living in LA. And you're right, it does depend on the person. But again, a typical lifestyle in NYC is not a typical lifestyle in LA, and the comparisons must be adjusted in order to make an equal COL analysis.
Why would I compare living in NYC with a car to living in LA with a car? The entire point for millions of people living in NYC is to take the subway and not own a car. So yeah. I'm going to compare NYC without a car to LA with a car. In NYC, a car is a luxury. In LA, a car is a necessity. So, if someone is considering moving to either city, they must own/maintain a car in LA which adds to their monthly costs. However, if they move to NYC, they won't have to worry about car ownership/maintenance. The majority of people in NYC do not own a car. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to factor in the COL with a car when comparing NYC to LA.
Studios are far more prevalent in NYC. It's a common thing to live in a studio here. In LA, most people are living in 1 bedrooms. Again, why would I compare something that's common in one city to something that's uncommon in the other.
The generic New Yorker is living in a studio without a car. Therefore, their monthly expenses are based on the median cost of a studio apartment + MTA 30-day Unlimited far.
The generic Angeleno is living in a 1 bedroom apartment with a car. Therefore, their monthly expenses are based on the median cost of a 1 bedroom apartment + ownership/maintenance of a car.
That's the apples to apples comparison. Apples to oranges comparison would be NYC 1 bed + car vs. LA 1 bed + car. Vice versa, apples to oranges comparison would by NYC studio + MTA pass vs. LA studio + LAMTA pass. Neither of those represents the typical lifestyle for a resident of the respective cities.
Some people do love having a car, yes. And those people likely are not living in NYC, where car owners are in the minority of the population. If they enjoyed owning a car, they would be better suited for living in LA. And you're right, it does depend on the person. But again, a typical lifestyle in NYC is not a typical lifestyle in LA, and the comparisons must be adjusted in order to make an equal COL analysis.
Right, but in a question as vague as "which can you get more for your money" there needs to be a consideration of what someone prioritizes and is trying to get. Your comparison makes sense to you--it's also what works for me since I live in NYC and do not have a car by choice. If I were to compare it to living in Los Angeles where I'm from, I'd be considering both the option of having a car or not. There's some situations, depending on where I end up working, where I might forego having a car myself so I don't have that additional cost though it'll likely be less convenient overall compared to how I live in NYC. That or I do get the car and then have to eat the cost of it. This is going to hold true for many different factors including size of one's residence. With neither city being particularly low cost of living places, actual choices and preferences in lifestyle will change this bang for the buck equation a lot.
Part of the reason that the lifestyles are "typical" in the way that they are is at least partially based on cost. It's been mentioned how inexpensive the subway is in NYC, but what hasn't been mentioned is how expensive owning a car is. Depending on where you live in NYC and how you commute, owning a car can be prohibitively expensive. What one person may "need" is entirely subjective, but I suspect that many more NYC residents would own cars if they could park for free at work and home.
Part of the reason that the lifestyles are "typical" in the way that they are is at least partially based on cost. It's been mentioned how inexpensive the subway is in NYC, but what hasn't been mentioned is how expensive owning a car is. Depending on where you live in NYC and how you commute, owning a car can be prohibitively expensive. What one person may "need" is entirely subjective, but I suspect that many more NYC residents would own cars if they could park for free at work and home.
Probably not. The subways are often quicker than driving, especially during rush hour.
Part of the reason that the lifestyles are "typical" in the way that they are is at least partially based on cost. It's been mentioned how inexpensive the subway is in NYC, but what hasn't been mentioned is how expensive owning a car is. Depending on where you live in NYC and how you commute, owning a car can be prohibitively expensive. What one person may "need" is entirely subjective, but I suspect that many more NYC residents would own cars if they could park for free at work and home.
Parking for free at work and home for everyone has other kinds of costs to it though. It's likely the plethora of neighborhood stores wouldn't be quite so active nor would the pedestrian streets, traffic would be substantially worse and development or redevelopment of the city would have to be quite different to accommodate all those parking spaces which changes the buildout of the city--in essence, you'd have a very different city. That's something some might prefer, but I moved from LA to NYC chiefly to not live in that type of city though I'm happy that LA has been changing to be more transit oriented towards walking and transit.
Parking for free at work and home for everyone has other kinds of costs to it though. It's likely the plethora of neighborhood stores wouldn't be quite so active nor would the pedestrian streets, traffic would be substantially worse and development or redevelopment of the city would have to be quite different to accommodate all those parking spaces which changes the buildout of the city--in essence, you'd have a very different city. That's something some might prefer, but I moved from LA to NYC chiefly to not live in that type of city though I'm happy that LA has been changing to be more transit oriented towards walking and transit.
Same. Even when I lived in LA, if I could walk to something in my neighborhood, I did. And I took public transit as much as I could when my work started paying for my LAMTA extra monthly pass that included the SaMo BBB and Culver City Bus.
Right, but in a question as vague as "which can you get more for your money" there needs to be a consideration of what someone prioritizes and is trying to get. Your comparison makes sense to you--it's also what works for me since I live in NYC and do not have a car by choice. If I were to compare it to living in Los Angeles where I'm from, I'd be considering both the option of having a car or not. There's some situations, depending on where I end up working, where I might forego having a car myself so I don't have that additional cost though it'll likely be less convenient overall compared to how I live in NYC. That or I do get the car and then have to eat the cost of it. This is going to hold true for many different factors including size of one's residence. With neither city being particularly low cost of living places, actual choices and preferences in lifestyle will change this bang for the buck equation a lot.
But ultimately you are getting significantly "more for your money" by choosing to live a transit-dependent lifestyle in New York City than a transit-dependent lifestyle in Los Angeles. In terms of accessibility, time savings, reliability, convenience, span of service, etc. It's not even a comparison, frankly.
For a 3k per month rental budget, you could get luxury in dtla or very nice in any number of neighborhoods in LA. Most likely a pool, lobby maybe a gym. That 3k would get you a walk up tiny not quite 1 bedroom in a fringe neighborhood. That same 3k apartment in LA would be 4.5k plus in nyc in a similar neighborhood, similar building. Prices are variable by neighborhood but in comparable neighborhoods most things cost more in nyc- yoga or spin, cocktails, live entertainment, groceries, dry cleaning, dentist, blow outs - comparing BH to UES or WH to WV or fin district to dtla. Yes nyc has mass transit, but it’s a $50 Uber from parts of Brooklyn to midtown and lots of people do that on weekend late nights. Also, NYers leave on summer weekends with costly beach rentals or homes if possible.
This. Nobody understands that our rents are high in NYC because we literally have absolutely costs related to owning a vehicle. Every website has a different number for rents. However, this one seems pretty accurate to me and also includes incomes. So let's go with Business Insider.
Median rent for a 1 bedroom in NYC: $2,650
Median income in NYC: $61,816
Rent = 51.4% of income in NYC
Now, take into consideration the cost of owning/maintaining a car. Even the cheapest regular cars are like $200/mo for payment and say $150/mo for insurance. With how much driving one must do in LA, and the high gas prices, let's say $100/mo on gas. That's $450/mo extra just on car-related expenses. And for one of the cheapest cars you can get. This could easily push over $500/mo and even $600/mo depending on the car you own. But I'm going budget here. Therefore, car + rent equates to around $2812/mo in LA.
All you have to pay for in NYC is rent + MTA 30-day unlimited card. The MTA pass is $127 so that makes monthly costs $2777/mo in NYC. That's $35/mo less in NYC than LA. That makes transportation/rent costs 58.1% of your income LA, but only 53.9%.
That doesn't take into consideration the cost of maintenance. Regular oil changes. New tires are a couple hundred dollars. Hopefully nothing goes wrong with your engine or other major parts.
Then don't forget that that's for a 1 BEDROOM in NYC. Plenty of us live in studios. So the median rent for a studio is even lower than that, bringing the cost of living in LA even higher than NYC.
At the end of the day, NYC rents are higher, but so are our incomes. But the biggest factor is not owning a car. Those metal death boxes are expensive af and literally provide no value to the world. They're money pits. They never appreciate in value. They're a burden when considering where to live/work/play.
But can you really go by your calculations? Many in NY do own cars. 45% of the households in New York have a car. Many in LA do but many don't. Many in LA don't have $400 and $500 monthly car payments. My car is paid off. So many factors.
But can you really go by your calculations? Many in NY do own cars. 45% of the households in New York have a car. Many in LA do but many don't. Many in LA don't have $400 and $500 monthly car payments. My car is paid off. So many factors.
Yeah many do. But in my experiences, the ones who often have a car are those born and raised in the city in the outer neighborhoods of the boroughs who live in full rowhomes or SFH and don't have the same costs. But I do get your point that not EVERYONE lives without a car.
However, for those looking to move to either city, the consideration becomes "I can move to LA where rent is lower, but I need to own a car and pay for that or I can move to NYC where I can sell my car and have some extra cash and not pay for ownership/maintenance, but then my rent is higher." It's more personal preference and what you're willing to sacrifice. If you need a car and can't survive in a studio, NYC will be exponentially more expensive for you. However, if you want to sell your car and can be happy living in a studio, NYC likely makes more sense for you.
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