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You’re expanding the core however, DC proper added 101k in 8 years vs just under 80k for Boston proper. Yes the cities are different sizes, but DC’s core ring around it expands further out, so if you’re going to extrapolate outward on Boston’s extended core, you’d have to compare the growth of Arlington, Alexandria, SS, Bethesda etc such all border district lines. This and beyond is where DC’s growth pulls away from Boston.
At 61 sq miles the cities have almost identical population growth. Yes DC’s suburbs have grown faster though.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by newgensandiego
Yes, but that's not the case for city growth. 0% of DC or Seattle's (city) growth was suburban sprawl. The City of Austin's impressive growth rate of 22% was largely supported by suburban sprawl. Seattle and DC grew by 22% and 17% , respectively--all urban infill.
Okay sure, Austin might be the Texas city of the decade (but is it?...Dallas?). Just for a DC comparison:
Capitol Riverfront
the 0.78-sqmi Capitol Riverfront neighborhood in DC (of which only 2/3 of the land is developable due to a stadium and military facilities, so similar size to west campus) experienced far more impressive growth:
2010 residential population of 2,781 to 12,600
17 residential projects totaling 4,800 units currently under construction (eventual neighborhood build-out will include 30,000+ residents)
Even more impressive, the neighborhood is home to the stadium of our World Series Champs (built in 2000s), the Department of Transportation HQ (built in 2000s), the Washington Navy Yard and 35,000 daytime employees. The Audi Field soccer stadium is right on the border as well (built in 2000s). Honestly, just look at google maps and you will be amazed by the amount and scale of construction: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8758.../data=!3m1!1e3
NoMa
Metro added an infill station in the 2000s and the neighborhood has seen nonstop growth. Narrowing in on the 0.37-sqmi area covered by the business improvement district:
- 2010 residential population of ~1,000, with current population at 10,000+
- 1,400 units under construction in the 0.37-sqmi area (an additional 3,500 units & 250K sf retail is in various stages of development at Union Market across the train tracks from NoMa)
DC and Seattle are just in a different league. They are rebuilding entire urban neighborhoods. Regionally, they have created new skylines in suburban locales like Tysons, Reston, and Bellevue.
Arguably, Nashville and Austin have elevated their profile through media hype more than any other city, so if that is the defining criteria, then so be it. There are plenty of cities around the country that have similar or higher levels of growth (Seattle, DC, Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Houston, Denver, Charlotte), along with far more worthy achievements and accolades than a skyline. Ultimately, Austin and Nashville are still not nationally relevant. They are barely mid-tier regions. Let's focus less on media hype and superficial measures like skylines and more on actual achievements and data.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by btownboss4
At 61 sq miles the cities have almost identical population growth. Yes DC’s suburbs have grown faster though.
Yes but that is cherry picking, Boston is not 61 sq mi. DC’s core expands further out and across the river. My point is why not extrapolate it to 100 sq mi? Or 120? The inner ring nodes around DC go at least that far and saw high level growth as well.
Yes but that is cherry picking, Boston is not 61 sq mi. DC’s core expands further out and across the river. My point is why not extrapolate it to 100 sq mi? Or 120? The inner ring nodes around DC go at least that far and saw high level growth as well.
Fine Boston gained 1606ppsm while DC gained 1655ppsm not a huge difference.
At 61 sq miles the cities have almost identical population growth. Yes DC’s suburbs have grown faster though.
They are pretty close. DC grew by 101,000 and Boston grew by 77,000, a difference of 24,000. Boston is 13 sqmi smaller. Adding in Cambridge 6.5 sqmi would mean about 14,000 more, so it seems conceivable that another 6.5 sqmi in adjacent areas could have contributed the remaining 10,000 new residents.
But yeah, DC regional growth was far more impressive. Even inner "suburbs" like Arlington and Alexandria also grew by 15%. Nonetheless, it's pretty crazy that the District had a higher net gain than any other jurisdiction in the greater DMV.
So if youre going to compare an area, you have to have equal size's to compare. If you include Cambridge, Chelsea, Somerville and Everett... you get 61sqm ... and those are not suburbs. Those are extremely dense, urban cores that never got absorbed into the city.
Cambridge/Somerville/Everett/Chelsea are not a suburb... actually all 4 of those cities have population densities greater than Boston's. Chelsea in 2019 is slightly over 20,000. Cambridge is at 18,000psqm with about 25-30 200ft+ buildings either under construction, in the pipeline or approved. (5 SoMa, 3 Volpe, ~12 NorthPointe, 2 MxD, 1 Google Tower, 1 Mass on Main, and a few other Kendall ones).
Also, Metro DC grew faster outside due to a combination of superb transportation and sprawl. Something Boston cannot get right, although Sprawl has virtually stopped. In the next 20 years growth should pick up due to transportation improvements as the Urban Core hits a ceiling. Literally.
Now that Boston is doing its core now, and fixing the T, the suburbs are bound to grow, which will then create a new wave f growth in the core some years from now.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
So if youre going to compare an area, you have to have equal size's to compare. If you include Cambridge, Chelsea, Somerville and Everett... you get 61sqm ... and those are not suburbs. Those are extremely dense, urban cores that never got absorbed into the city.
Also, Metro DC grew faster outside due to a combination of superb transportation and sprawl. Something Boston cannot get right, although Sprawl has virtually stopped. In the next 20 years growth should pick up due to transportation improvements as the Urban Core hits a ceiling. Literally.
The same applies with DC's core outside of it's 61 sq mi. If you include Arlington, Alexandria, DT Silver Spring and Bethesda. They aren't suburban sprawl. Especially not the growth that's taken place in the last 10 years, it's urban infill. Those nodes have grown at a faster rate than the outer edges of Boston's neighboring jurisdictions this decade.
The same applies with DC's core outside of it's 61 sq mi. If you include Arlington, Alexandria, DT Silver Spring and Bethesda. They aren't suburban sprawl. Especially not the growth that's taken place in the last 10 years, it's urban infill. Those nodes have grown at a faster rate than the outer edges of Boston's neighboring jurisdictions this decade.
you don't think that there is value in comparing equal geographic areas?
just arbitrary city limits? By Density Boston proper and DC proper are basically adding the same amount of people per sq mile, and if you expand it to equal geographies they add the same amount of people.
The difference is places like Lynn, Malden and Quincy vs Silver Springs and Alexandria and the outer suburbs out away from the center city.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
you don't think that there is value in comparing equal geographic areas?
just arbitrary city limits? By Density Boston proper and DC proper are basically adding the same amount of people per sq mile, and if you expand it to equal geographies they add the same amount of people.
The difference is places like Lynn, Malden and Quincy vs Silver Springs and Alexandria and the outer suburbs out away from the center city.
What does that have to do with your claim that DC area grew faster due to suburban sprawl? After you exit both of these cities boundaries there is a bump both get in population because of the dense urban nodes surrounding them. There is no apples to apples comparison because DC's overall core is larger and includes Arlington and Alexandria which combined is 100 sq mi and not 61. So going by your logic there would be a never ending cycle of expanding boundaries trying make things equivalent.
What does that have to do with your claim that DC area grew faster due to suburban sprawl? After you exit both of these cities boundaries there is a bump both get in population because of the dense urban nodes surrounding them. There is no apples to apples comparison because DC's overall core is larger and includes Arlington and Alexandria which combined is 100 sq mi and not 61. So going by your logic there would be a never ending cycle of expanding boundaries trying make things equivalent.
Because in the cores they’ve added the same amount of people but the areas further out have growing faster in DMV
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You’re expanding the core however, DC proper added 101k in 8 years vs just under 80k for Boston proper. Yes the cities are different sizes, but DC’s core ring around it expands further out, so if you’re going to extrapolate outward on Boston’s extended core, you’d have to compare the growth of Arlington, Alexandria, SS, Bethesda etc such all border district lines. This and beyond is where DC’s growth pulls away from Boston.
