Historically, which of these 4 Rust Belt Cities was the most influential on American society? (live, best)
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Which of these 4 American Rust Belt cities do you think was historically, more significant?
Detroit: Auto-industry, once the 4th largest in the country in the 1940s-50s.
Cleveland: Rock and roll, Musical industry, sports.
Buffalo: 8th largest city back in 1900, border with Canada.
Pittsburgh: Steel production.
I voted for Detroit. You can also give Detroit a nod for Motown/Hitsville. I'd even suggest that its role as a the pinnacle of the rust belt (lost industry, urban decay, city bankruptcy) really adds to its historical significance. When I think of the concept of ruin porn that's the city I think of.
20th/21st century - Detroit. Rise and fall of a great city.
19th century - Buffalo - front line War of 1812, Erie Canal, railroads, Gateway to West, 2 Presidents
Cleveland was the 5th largest city in America at its peak in 1920, and stayed in the top 10 largest cities through 1970. Pittsburgh was never above the 9th largest city, and fell out of the top 10 by 1950. Cleveland was home of the world’s first billionaire John D. Rockefeller, and his Standard Oil company. It was also home to the inventor of the first electric light, Charles Brush, and the company that became GE. It was a highly dynamic city home to countless innovations and their inventors who lived on Millionaires Row, which Mark Twain called the finest street in America. It was home to America’s first and most beautiful planned suburb (Shaker Heights), where stars like Bob Hope and Paul Newman were from. It was home to the creators of Superman, Elliot Ness, and yes, it was home to Alan Freed, the DJ who popularized the term rock and roll, and held the first rock concert. Cleveland was definitely historically more important than Pittsburgh ever was.
Last edited by Cleverfield; 12-20-2019 at 08:23 AM..
Cleveland was the 5th largest city in America at its peak in 1920, and stayed in the top 10 largest cities through 1970. Pittsburgh was never above the 9th largest city, and fell out of the top 10 by 1950. Cleveland was home of the world’s first billionaire John D. Rockefeller, and his Standard Oil company. It was also home to the inventor of the first electric light, Charles Brush, and the company that became GE. It was a highly dynamic city home to countless innovations and their inventors who lived on Millionaires Row, which Mark Twain called the finest street in America. It was home to America’s first and most beautiful planned suburb (Shaker Heights), where stars like Bob Hope and Paul Newman were from. It was home to the creators of Superman, Elliot Ness, and yes, it was home to Alan Freed, the DJ who popularized the term rock and roll, and held the first rock concert. Cleveland was definitely historically more important than Pittsburgh ever was.
C'mon, using city limits populations are meaningless except for government and trivia. not comparable because they all have different land areas. Pittsburgh happened to not annex as much surrounding land into the city limits because of state laws, and as a result has smaller land area within city limits than Cleveland and hence less population . Pittsburgh is more dense. MSA populations are usually used to compare, and Pittsburgh was a larger MSA for the majority of history over Cleveland.
Dayton was the birthplace of aviation and the nation's center of military aviation research and manufacture until privatized by the federal government during and after WWII.
At some point, perhaps when Kitty Hawk is underwater a century or two from now, the world finally may recognize that the first airplane took flight at Dayton's Huffman Prairie Flying Field.
Dayton's role in aviation history may alone qualify itself as the greatest rust belt city of the 20th century.
Additionally, Dayton was the home of Charles Kettering, arguably as great an American inventor as Edison, perhaps moreso given his much greater technological expertise as a trained electrical engineer and the complexity of his inventions. Many in the auto industry are familiar with Delco, but few know that it was founded by Kettering and stands for Dayton Engineering Laboratories Co.
Kettering's inventions included the automobile self-starter, leaded gasoline, Freon (think of the impact of refrigeration and air-conditioning on American society), the first aerial missile, and the two-stroke diesel engine that revolutionized the locomotive and heavy equipment industries. While head of research at NCR, Kettering also developed an easy credit system that was a precursor to credit cards.
Dayton's Mead Corp. developed Lexis/Nexis, in retrospect, arguably the world's first cloud data product even before the emergence of the Internet.
However, among the choices offered, Detroit is the clear winner, not only for its transformational industrial prowess, which helped win WWII, but also because of its cultural heft, such as Motown. The Detroit metropolitan area produced 10 percent of U.S. manufactured war goods during WWII. Famously, Ford by 1945 was producing at its Willow Run factory one B-24 Liberator heavy bomber every hour!
Both Dayton (Carillon Historical Park) and Detroit (Detroit Historical Museum) have wonderful local history museums.
In Dearborn just outside Detroit, The Henry Ford is perhaps the foremost U.S. museum of the 20th century industrial revolution. Nearby is the incredible Ford Rouge factory complex, which offers one of the best factory tours in the U.S.
The Rouge was the world's first integrated factory complex with 100 miles of interior railroad tracks and it employed 100,000 workers even during the Great Depression. It was to American manufacturing what Disneyland (and later Disney World) was to amusement parks.
As for Cleveland, it dominated the petroleum industry in its early days as the headquarters of the Rockefeller empire. Nela Park was the world's first industrial park and as GE's lighting division headquarters, dominated the global electrical illumination industry for a century.
The development of the Cleveland Union Terminal project in combination with the Shaker Hts. garden city remains one of the great real estate development projects in American history. For decades, Cleveland's Terminal Tower was the tallest building outside of NY City in the U.S. until 1964 and the world until 1953, and so holds an important place in the history of skyscrapers.
Tom Johnson remains one of America's greatest and most influential mayors, and certainly an inspiration in our current Age of Greed. Johnson indelibly transformed Cleveland into a modern city in a few short years, and his presence echoes throughout the region even today. See especially the inscription at the end of post 3 here, a feeling still shared by many Clevelanders long after Johnson's death.
And arguably, Johnson's spirit and inspiration led to the founding of Cleveland's great cultural institutions shortly after his term of office and his death. Even today, the Cleveland Museum of Art, established in 1913, has totally free admission to its general collections and most exhibits.
Cleveland was the 5th largest city in America at its peak in 1920, and stayed in the top 10 largest cities through 1970. Pittsburgh was never above the 9th largest city, and fell out of the top 10 by 1950. Cleveland was home of the world’s first billionaire John D. Rockefeller, and his Standard Oil company. It was also home to the inventor of the first electric light, Charles Brush, and the company that became GE. It was a highly dynamic city home to countless innovations and their inventors who lived on Millionaires Row, which Mark Twain called the finest street in America. It was home to America’s first and most beautiful planned suburb (Shaker Heights), where stars like Bob Hope and Paul Newman were from. It was home to the creators of Superman, Elliot Ness, and yes, it was home to Alan Freed, the DJ who popularized the term rock and roll, and held the first rock concert. Cleveland was definitely historically more important than Pittsburgh ever was.
Wow, and here I was thinking that all famous actors were born in Los Angeles! This totally puts Cleveland in a whole new light for me.
Pittsburgh was of course wealthier than Cleveland during that time (and still is), but the key differentiator is what happened after the industrial days.
Pittsburgh built an entire light rail system while rebranding itself.
Cleveland is struggling to maintain primacy in its own state, increasingly playing second fiddle to a state capital that doesn't even have a train station.
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Dayton may rank higher than even Detroit
