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Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Good post and defense in support of Atlanta.
I have no skin in this game other than I did live briefly in both cities but let’s not discount the popularity and contribution of SF culture, arts and music—OUTSIDE of technology over the decades:
Levi Strauss jeans, The Gap, Haight Asbury and musical contributions that impacted an entire generation (Bill Graham, The Fillmore, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Santana, etc) followed later by Journey, Clint Eastwood, Robin Williams, George Lucas/Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchises, Steve Miller, etc) plus the worldwide acknowledgement of Napa and Sonoma wine, California Cuisine (Alice Waters, Thomas Keller, etc) and international recognition of The Golden Gate Bridge, Trolleys, and possibly Alcatraz as symbols of SF let alone the international appeal to Asians, Europeans and Latinos (particularly Mexicans) based on the multi ethnicity of the city. Wells Fargo, Charles Schwab, VISA, are all widely known financial institutions. Finally, I would never put Emory (MBA Class of 1983) and Georgia Tech on the same level as Stanford and Berkeley—well respected, yes; as prestigious and connected alumni, no.
Atlanta might very well be on its way in the years ahead and get to the next level but SF remains a notch above and for reasons besides just tech.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne
I dont wanna really get into an argument but you can short Atlanta out of prominence.The Superbowl last year was in Atlanta
The SEC and ACC Championships are HUGE games so they are just silly regional college games.They bring in major number of tourist each year.
The Final Four i for 2020 will be in Atlanta.
If you want to bring up golf and mention Tiger Woods teh you have to bring up Bobby Jones.The best golfer of all time and the founder of the Masters tournament in Augusta.
The PGA tournament is at East Lake Country Club where Tiger has won and been to many times.
The last national Democratic Debate was in Atlanta just recently.
Long before Silicon Valley there was Coca Cola.The most recognized brand in the world.
CNN may not be as prominent as it used to be but its still known around the world.
You cant leave out the fact that more television and films are produced in Atlanta than in SF and its not ,
close.Not to mention the music scene.
There are several shows on Netfilx and Hulu that specifically showcase topics in or about Atlanta.
So while no one can deny SF clout,its hardly a laughable exercise to include Atlanta as a contender especially as we are talking about cities of importance in the future.
Even Bay area companies see Atlanta as aiid bet as Amazon,Google,Twitter etc alll have large and growing operations there .
You dont have to like a city to recognize its positives but I see many posters in this thread attacking and stating some really off the wall comments about Atlanta .I keep seeing teh word "regional" whch is absolutely ridiculous as Atlanta is far from a regional city with so many prominent companies and institutions.(CDC,Airport,Emory Univ/GA Tech etc).
Atlanta may or may not beat SF in influence,either way you cant rule it out why someone would say it does as no one would ever deny SF is economically in every way far more superior
Last edited by elchevere; 12-30-2019 at 10:33 AM..
I have no skin in this game other than I did live briefly in both cities but let’s not discount the popularity and contribution of SF culture, arts and music—OUTSIDE of technology over the decades:
Levi Strauss jeans, The Gap, Haight Asbury and musical contributions that impacted an entire generation (Bill Graham, The Fillmore, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Santana, etc) followed later by Journey, Clint Eastwood, Robin Williams, George Lucas/Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchises, Steve Miller, etc) plus the worldwide acknowledgement of Napa and Sonoma wine, California Cuisine (Alice Waters, Thomas Keller, etc) and international recognition of The Golden Gate Bridge, Trolleys, and possibly Alcatraz as symbols of SF let alone the international appeal to Asians, Europeans and Latinos (particularly Mexicans) based on the multi ethnicity of the city. Wells Fargo, Charles Schwab, VISA, are all widely known financial institutions. Finally, I would never put Emory (MBA Class of 1983) and Georgia Tech on the same level as Stanford and Berkeley—well respected, yes; as prestigious and connected alumni, no.
Atlanta might very well be on its way in the years ahead and get to the next level but SF remains a notch above and for reasons besides just tech.
Good post. I was about to say that SF isn't all Tech. It's just what it's known for at the moment. Atlanta is a strong player in it's own tier which is not the same as SF.
I dont wanna really get into an argument but you can short Atlanta out of prominence.The Superbowl last year was in Atlanta
The SEC and ACC Championships are HUGE games so they are just silly regional college games.They bring in major number of tourist each year.
The Final Four i for 2020 will be in Atlanta.
If you want to bring up golf and mention Tiger Woods teh you have to bring up Bobby Jones.The best golfer of all time and the founder of the Masters tournament in Augusta.
The PGA tournament is at East Lake Country Club where Tiger has won and been to many times.
The last national Democratic Debate was in Atlanta just recently.
Long before Silicon Valley there was Coca Cola.The most recognized brand in the world.
CNN may not be as prominent as it used to be but its still known around the world.
You cant leave out the fact that more television and films are produced in Atlanta than in SF and its not ,
close.Not to mention the music scene.
There are several shows on Netfilx and Hulu that specifically showcase topics in or about Atlanta.
So while no one can deny SF clout,its hardly a laughable exercise to include Atlanta as a contender especially as we are talking about cities of importance in the future.
Even Bay area companies see Atlanta as aiid bet as Amazon,Google,Twitter etc alll have large and growing operations there .
You dont have to like a city to recognize its positives but I see many posters in this thread attacking and stating some really off the wall comments about Atlanta .I keep seeing teh word "regional" whch is absolutely ridiculous as Atlanta is far from a regional city with so many prominent companies and institutions.(CDC,Airport,Emory Univ/GA Tech etc).
Atlanta may or may not beat SF in influence,either way you cant rule it out why someone would say it does as no one would ever deny SF is economically in every way far more superior
Great post. I don't have a dog in this fight. Since this thread is talking about the future, in all objectivity, Atlanta has a leg up over SF. Though it's true SF isn't "all" tech and it does have a good sized banking/finance presence, their economy isn't nearly as diversified as Atlanta's. SF's cost of living is sinnfully over the top and will never again be even remotely affordable on any level. That itself slings a heavy blow to the Bay Area's quality of life. That murders their buying power on both a social and commercial level. I was in SF earlier this year and the city resembles a 3rd world city in many ways due to the rampant homelessness, very open drug use, urine/poop everywhere, the mentally ill everywhere downtown/BART/etc. acting out. Plus a political system that nurtures this. I was dumbfounded at how bad it was.
I am well aware that to many C-Ders, a blind eye is cast upon the Bay Areas glaring issues and is still a C-D darling. Ignoring these issues is what has led SF to where it is now. Resting on any past laurels won't help either. Trust me, Atlanta will do very well over the 2020's and SF will decline. Atlanta's great economy, great buying power, low cost of living, and the other major metro offerings are a combination and balance that SF just can't match.
Great post. I don't have a dog in this fight. Since this thread is talking about the future, in all objectivity, Atlanta has a leg up over SF. Though it's true SF isn't "all" tech and it does have a good sized banking/finance presence, their economy isn't nearly as diversified as Atlanta's. SF's cost of living is sinnfully over the top and will never again be even remotely affordable on any level. That itself slings a heavy blow to the Bay Area's quality of life. That murders their buying power on both a social and commercial level. I was in SF earlier this year and the city resembles a 3rd world city in many ways due to the rampant homelessness, very open drug use, urine/poop everywhere, the mentally ill everywhere downtown/BART/etc. acting out. Plus a political system that nurtures this. I was dumbfounded at how bad it was.
I am well aware that to many C-Ders, a blind eye is cast upon the Bay Areas glaring issues and is still a C-D darling. Ignoring these issues is what has led SF to where it is now. Resting on any past laurels won't help either. Trust me, Atlanta will do very well over the 2020's and SF will decline. Atlanta's great economy, great buying power, low cost of living, and the other major metro offerings are a combination and balance that SF just can't match.
You really think that's the consensus of opinion on C-D concerning SF?
Granted, I had different reasons for reaching this decision, but the rationale overlaps:
I visited both San Francisco and Seattle for the first (and in SF's case, the only so far) time in 2006.
Afterwards, I told my friends that if I were told I had to choose between spending the rest of my life in San Francisco and spending it in Seattle, I'd spend it in Seattle.
San Franciscans just struck me as a little too detached from reality.
SF's cost of living is sinnfully over the top and will never again be even remotely affordable on any level.
Really? Then why do Atlanta folks pay more of their income on housing than people in SF? Census Data: The percentage of people by MSA who spend 35% or more of their income on rent.
1. San Jose MSA: 36.4%
2. Nashville MSA: 36.6%
3. Phoenix MSA: 37.4%
4T. Charlotte MSA: 37.5% 4T. San Francisco MSA: 37.5%
6. Minneapolis MSA: 37.6%
7T. Dallas MSA: 37.8%
7T. Seattle MSA: 37.8%
9T. Washington DC MSA: 38.2%
9T. St. Louis MSA: 38.2%
11. Boston MSA: 39.2%
12. Austin MSA: 39.4%
13. Chicago MSA: 39.5%
14. Jacksonville MSA: 39.6%
15. Portland MSA: 39.9%
16. Detroit MSA: 40.1% 17. Atlanta MSA: 40.5%
18T. Houston MSA: 40.8%
18T. San Antonio MSA: 40.8%
20. Baltimore MSA: 41%
21. Denver MSA: 41.6%
22. Philadelphia MSA: 42.2%
23. NYC MSA: 43.2%
24T. Las Vegas MSA: 43.4%
24T. Tampa MSA: 43.4%
26. Honolulu MSA: 44.6%
27. Sacramento MSA: 46%
28. Orlando MSA: 46.3%
29. San Diego MSA: 48.2%
30. Riverside, CA MSA: 49.9%
31. New Orleans MSA: 50.6%
32. Miami MSA: 52.7%
33. Los Angeles MSA: 56.9%
That itself slings a heavy blow to the Bay Area's quality of life. That murders their buying power on both a social and commercial level.
Sometimes it seems that people make things up out of thin air...literally.
Poverty Rate 2018
Atlanta 21%
San Francisco 10%
Average Compensation Per Job 2018
$150,756 San Jose Metro Area
$115,069 San Francisco Metro Area
$74,330 Atlanta Metro Area
The Bay Area is more affluent and less poor overall, people like that generally have more buying power.
#fyi
Quote:
I was in SF earlier this year and the city resembles a 3rd world city in many ways due to the rampant homelessness, very open drug use, urine/poop everywhere, the mentally ill everywhere downtown/BART/etc. acting out.
Have you ever been to the 3rd world? This kind of homelessness and mentally ill on the street is way more prevalent in the US imo.
Quote:
Plus a political system that nurtures this. I was dumbfounded at how bad it was.
Resting on any past laurels won't help either. Trust me, Atlanta will do very well over the 2020's and SF will decline.
Well, looking at the last 15 years, one might think differently:
2003 & 2018 GDP
They were so close back then...WHAT HAPPENED?
Quote:
Atlanta's great economy, great buying power, low cost of living, and the other major metro offerings are a combination and balance that SF just can't match.
Im still waiting for someone to provide facts and not their own ego-driven wishlist.
LOL
Last edited by 18Montclair; 12-30-2019 at 03:57 PM..
I have no skin in this game other than I did live briefly in both cities but let’s not discount the popularity and contribution of SF culture, arts and music—OUTSIDE of technology over the decades:
Levi Strauss jeans, The Gap, Haight Asbury and musical contributions that impacted an entire generation (Bill Graham, The Fillmore, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Santana, etc) followed later by Journey, Clint Eastwood, Robin Williams, George Lucas/Star Wars and Indiana Jones franchises, Steve Miller, etc) plus the worldwide acknowledgement of Napa and Sonoma wine, California Cuisine (Alice Waters, Thomas Keller, etc) and international recognition of The Golden Gate Bridge, Trolleys, and possibly Alcatraz as symbols of SF let alone the international appeal to Asians, Europeans and Latinos (particularly Mexicans) based on the multi ethnicity of the city. Wells Fargo, Charles Schwab, VISA, are all widely known financial institutions. Finally, I would never put Emory (MBA Class of 1983) and Georgia Tech on the same level as Stanford and Berkeley—well respected, yes; as prestigious and connected alumni, no.
Atlanta might very well be on its way in the years ahead and get to the next level but SF remains a notch above and for reasons besides just tech.
Thats what the thread is about so the poster who first said Atlanta had a good point about Atlanta and
its cultural influence in the world at large as it pertains to now and the decade ahead.
No one has said anything about Houston Houston economically is a peer of Chicago even though Dallas is even bigger ( I agree ),but Houston nor Dallas doesnt have anywhere the influence of Chicago .
Chicago economically is greater than SF but culture wise no where near having the influence of SF.
I dont think anyone would deny Houston or Dallas has a greater reach of influence than Atlanta.Would they?
The area in bold is what this thread is about so why all the back lash of acknowledging Atlanta? It clearly influences on some level just below,near or the same to surely compete with SF ?Its close enough where it can go either way is what I am trying to say but it seems any mention of Atlanta with SF brings derision and negative jabs.
You can go back and forth with reasons to support both cities.Some of that stuff you mention like Emory amd Tech bot being in the same stata as Stanford and Berkley is beside the point as the are top 30 schools even though SF schools are on the higher end.Yet all those Valley companies heavily recruit at Tech.It one of their major sources of talent.
You mention things like appeal to Asians but Atlanta appeal to Africans and Caribbeans is just as strong if not stronger.
So lets focus on today and the future.
In the last 40 days and in a few days Atlanta has hosted:
The Miss Universe Pagent.(I watched part of it with family in Philly)
Democratic Presidential Debate
The SEC and The Chick fil A Bowl
2020 Final Four
Atlanta is bidding for the 2026 world cup and chances are it will get it as it has the new Mercedes Benz arena which I hear is the most expensive stadium in the world as of last year.
Atlanta did host the Olympics and SF has never held any event as large as that before.
So yes SF has such a prominent future in which no one can deny its reach but just like AF is no one trick pony,neither is Atlanta.
All im saying is lets be reasonable.It understandable why someone would say Atlanta has so much influence but people often over look or dont realize just how much comes out of Atlanta as its assets are more diverse but not always recognized as that which comes out of the Bay Area as it has been on the radar much longer.
Really? Then why do Atlanta folks pay more of their income on housing than people in SF? Census Data: The percentage of people by MSA who spend 35% or more of their income on rent.
1. San Jose MSA: 36.4%
2. Nashville MSA: 36.6%
3. Phoenix MSA: 37.4%
4T. Charlotte MSA: 37.5% 4T. San Francisco MSA: 37.5%
6. Minneapolis MSA: 37.6%
7T. Dallas MSA: 37.8%
7T. Seattle MSA: 37.8%
9T. Washington DC MSA: 38.2%
9T. St. Louis MSA: 38.2%
11. Boston MSA: 39.2%
12. Austin MSA: 39.4%
13. Chicago MSA: 39.5%
14. Jacksonville MSA: 39.6%
15. Portland MSA: 39.9%
16. Detroit MSA: 40.1% 17. Atlanta MSA: 40.5%
18T. Houston MSA: 40.8%
18T. San Antonio MSA: 40.8%
20. Baltimore MSA: 41%
21. Denver MSA: 41.6%
22. Philadelphia MSA: 42.2%
23. NYC MSA: 43.2%
24T. Las Vegas MSA: 43.4%
24T. Tampa MSA: 43.4%
26. Honolulu MSA: 44.6%
27. Sacramento MSA: 46%
28. Orlando MSA: 46.3%
29. San Diego MSA: 48.2%
30. Riverside, CA MSA: 49.9%
31. New Orleans MSA: 50.6%
32. Miami MSA: 52.7%
33. Los Angeles MSA: 56.9%
Well, looking at the last 15 years, one might think differently:
2003 & 2018 GDP
They were so close back then...WHAT HAPPENED?
Im still waiting for someone to provide facts and not their own ego-driven wishlist.
LOL
LOL. WOw. You need a reality check.Lets just step away from CD and visit the real world.
SF is beyond reality for the majority of Americans.
More people move out of SF than in.Thats not the case for Atlanta. So all your stats are lining up with whats actually going on in peoples lives and the decisons they are making.
Inequality can only exist when there is a balance or at least more people in poverty versus those who are more well off.
A city like SF is way to expensive so many people are either homeless or they move away.
Its nothing to brag at to have high inequality or high homelesness which SF has way more than almost any city in the country. So many wealthy people that the those making more than the middle class.
You can put cities like SF and NYC up against even Chicago ,Houston,Miami based on most of these metrics and SF will still rank much higher so holding Atlanta to a standard that larger and more prosperous cities cant even measure up as SF is not typical of what most are made of.Kinda like Vancouver. A great city but just too expensive
LOL. WOw. You need a reality check.Lets just step away from CD and visit the real world.
SF is beyond reality for the majority of Americans.
More people move out of SF than in.Thats not the case for Atlanta. So all your stats are lining up with whats actually going on in peoples lives and the decisons they are making.
Inequality can only exist when there is a balance or at least more people in poverty versus those who are more well off.
A city like SF is way to expensive so many people are either homeless or they move away.
Its nothing to brag at to have high inequality or high homelesness which SF has way more than almost any city in the country. So many wealthy people that the those making more than the middle class.
You can put cities like SF and NYC up against even Chicago ,Houston,Miami based on most of these metrics and SF will still rank much higher so holding Atlanta to a standard that larger and more prosperous cities cant even measure up as SF is not typical of what most are made of.Kinda like Vancouver. A great city but just too expensive
How come nobody is answering this question: Why do Atlanta folks pay more of their income on housing than people in SF?
Census Data: The percentage of people by MSA who spend 35% or more of their income on rent.
1. San Jose MSA: 36.4%
2. Nashville MSA: 36.6%
3. Phoenix MSA: 37.4%
4T. Charlotte MSA: 37.5%
4T. San Francisco MSA: 37.5%
6. Minneapolis MSA: 37.6%
7T. Dallas MSA: 37.8%
7T. Seattle MSA: 37.8%
9T. Washington DC MSA: 38.2%
9T. St. Louis MSA: 38.2%
11. Boston MSA: 39.2%
12. Austin MSA: 39.4%
13. Chicago MSA: 39.5%
14. Jacksonville MSA: 39.6%
15. Portland MSA: 39.9%
16. Detroit MSA: 40.1%
17. Atlanta MSA: 40.5%
18T. Houston MSA: 40.8%
18T. San Antonio MSA: 40.8%
20. Baltimore MSA: 41%
21. Denver MSA: 41.6%
22. Philadelphia MSA: 42.2%
23. NYC MSA: 43.2%
24T. Las Vegas MSA: 43.4%
24T. Tampa MSA: 43.4%
26. Honolulu MSA: 44.6%
27. Sacramento MSA: 46%
28. Orlando MSA: 46.3%
29. San Diego MSA: 48.2%
30. Riverside, CA MSA: 49.9%
31. New Orleans MSA: 50.6%
32. Miami MSA: 52.7%
33. Los Angeles MSA: 56.9%
We are way more expensive yet fewer people here pay more than 35% of their income on rent than in Atlanta. That destroys the cost-of-living argument to shreds.
LOL. WOw. You need a reality check.Lets just step away from CD and visit the real world.
SF is beyond reality for the majority of Americans.
More people move out of SF than in.Thats not the case for Atlanta. So all your stats are lining up with whats actually going on in peoples lives and the decisons they are making.
Inequality can only exist when there is a balance or at least more people in poverty versus those who are more well off.
A city like SF is way to expensive so many people are either homeless or they move away.
Its nothing to brag at to have high inequality or high homelesness which SF has way more than almost any city in the country. So many wealthy people that the those making more than the middle class.
You can put cities like SF and NYC up against even Chicago ,Houston,Miami based on most of these metrics and SF will still rank much higher so holding Atlanta to a standard that larger and more prosperous cities cant even measure up as SF is not typical of what most are made of.Kinda like Vancouver. A great city but just too expensive
You're basically saying that you agree that Atlanta doesn't measure up well to SF because SF isn't a typical city like Atlanta.
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