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I spent my whole career around switched-on people in high tech. Most of them are interested in everything. They don’t go home and watch Survivor or Friends reruns on television.
Geoff-you gotta know that people involved in the higher levels high tech is a miniscule portion of people. Even in the greater Boston area. How much does intellectualism surrounding high tech concern Bostonians was it mentioned in last nights State of the City Address? Is it in our local politics at all other than people saying "rich people are moving here messing things up" ? How often does the mayor or any city or state official talkabout tech or talk in an intellectual fashion at all? a level of pragmatism is what i'm trying to bring here. Not to say there arent intellectuals in tech-id wager that most in tech are intellectual because they are inherently looking to create or optimize. But that's not the fabric or foundation daily life anf culture in Boston the way it is and San Francisco/Silicon Valley or even Seattle-nevertheless I find Boston to be more intellectual.
I've probably met thousand of people in Boston-none of them were involved in tech or high tech that I know of- I know they exist in good numbers but in the grand scheme of thing their dollars speak much louder than their raw numbers. I have met many in academia, finance, healthcare and the civic realm though.
The type of people who post here (especially from Boston) have unusual and elevated levels of financial success and career autonomy which affords us the time to postulate things like this. I have the autonomy but not the financial success, that's why I have this time.
Boston's politics and city life throughout much of it is dominated by multigenerational lower middle class people. As is the case in New York and most places. I still voted for it because it has a high number of inquisitive curious and politically active people amongst all classes-not just academia or tech. San Francisco is maybe an exception but I dont know id call it as intellectual as Boston.
If you were less surrounded by tech individuals you might gain a broader appreciation of what signifies , indicates or qualifies as "intellectualism." Watching Friends reruns could be an intellectual experience from a social and cultural observation standpoint. Survivor could be someone recalling the rise of reality television. Why did it rise? How has it changed? What were the financial advantages behind it? How have tastes changed, etc. The ability to have a spirited conversation like those with people in Boston and environs-in comparison to other areas i've visited and lived-is moreso why I voted for it than tech.
I remember a few years ago a couple of friend of mine from Dorchester and Roxbury we got into a deep conversation regarding what was more important at a fundamental-Mathematics or Language, we traversed various cultures, histories and theories in this conversation. We didn't draw a conclusion but to have a conversation like that with young black men from pretty rough backgrounds and impoverished areas is something I don't get in a lot places.(i voted Language-i got surprising push back).
Its the quick wit, satirical nature, and calm observations of Bostonians that has made it a breeding ground for comedy and comedians like Louis CK Patrice Oneal Bill Burr Jay Leno Gary Gulman and many more.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-08-2020 at 07:55 AM..
Boston - Duh
New York - Bill Hicks Lizard People bit
Columbus - Have noticed more than their fair share of residents as contestants on Jeopardy!
I see San Francisco as faux intellectualism. Yeah, there's some smart people with degrees yadda yadda yadda. Tech this tech that yadda yadda yadda. Tech people might be interested in everything, but it's all for show. A mile wide, but an inch deep. They care about video games, and showing off how many places they travel to. Could they tell me about the culture or traditions of the obscure country they just visited? Not likely.
Intellectualism includes, to me, "dumb" things like how to change a tire on a car (but young people are so cool they don't need to drive yadda yadda yadda), install a ceiling fan, sew a button on, train your dogs to be anything more than animated house ornaments, unlock a garbage disposal, and find their way even in their own city without Google f'n Maps.
Oh, the Old Guard San Franciscans is what is making people vote overwhelmingly for the overrated Bay Area? The "Hippies"? Please. They're so "intellectual" they can't get out of their own way. See: homeless crisis brought about by their NIMBYism coupled with their bleeding hearts. Sure, "intellectual".
Haha Columbus(where u live btw) is in your top 3 but SF, one of the educated and sophisticated cities on the planet, is 'faux' intellectualism.
Whatever makes u feel good buddy, but I have now officially heard it all.
2019 - Westerville, Ohio. That's Columbus. Notice Columbus itself there in 2013, 2014, and 2015. 2010 and 2011 - Dublin, Ohio. That's Columbus. Broaden your horizons, dude. This country has more than 5 cities and 2 coasts.
I agree that many give Columbus short shrift, especially after having visited in 2009, but:
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Father_McKenzie
Boston - Duh
New York - Bill Hicks Lizard People bit
Columbus - Have noticed more than their fair share of residents as contestants on Jeopardy!
I see San Francisco as faux intellectualism. Yeah, there's some smart people with degrees yadda yadda yadda. Tech this tech that yadda yadda yadda. Tech people might be interested in everything, but it's all for show. A mile wide, but an inch deep. They care about video games, and showing off how many places they travel to. Could they tell me about the culture or traditions of the obscure country they just visited? Not likely.
Intellectualism includes, to me, "dumb" things like how to change a tire on a car (but young people are so cool they don't need to drive yadda yadda yadda), install a ceiling fan, sew a button on, train your dogs to be anything more than animated house ornaments, unlock a garbage disposal, and find their way even in their own city without Google f'n Maps.
Oh, the Old Guard San Franciscans is what is making people vote overwhelmingly for the overrated Bay Area? The "Hippies"? Please. They're so "intellectual" they can't get out of their own way. See: homeless crisis brought about by their NIMBYism coupled with their bleeding hearts. Sure, "intellectual".
As someone who has yet to pass the "Jeopardy!" qualifying test but someone whose friends all want to have on their Quizzo teams, I can tell you that the mere ability to store millions of facts in your brain does not make you an intellectual per se. It's what you do with them that makes the difference.
Similarly, the "dumb" things you list are knowledge, and knowledge more people should have. But they're considered manual, not intellectual, skills: you don't have to reason the tire off your car's wheel, and AFAIK, you can't do a race/gender/class analysis of the practice of reattaching lost buttons onto shirts or coats (though I imagine some cultural studies graduate student has tried). If by including these you wish to make the point that we overvalue some skills and undervalue others, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but that doesn't mean that you can move them from one category to the other willy-nilly.
That NIMBY stuff has nothing to do with intellectual skills at all. In fact, much of it is people thinking with their gut rather than their head. That, or it's pure economic self-interest crossed with fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Geoff-you gotta know that people involved in the higher levels high tech is a miniscule portion of people. Even in the greater Boston area. How much does intellectualism surrounding high tech concern Bostonians was it mentioned in last nights State of the City Address? Is it in our local politics at all other than people saying "rich people are moving here messing things up" ? How often does the mayor or any city or state official talkabout tech or talk in an intellectual fashion at all? a level of pragmatism is what i'm trying to bring here. Not to say there arent intellectuals in tech-id wager that most in tech are intellectual because they are inherently looking to create or optimize. But that's not the fabric or foundation daily life anf culture in Boston the way it is and San Francisco/Silicon Valley or even Seattle-nevertheless I find Boston to be more intellectual.
This paragraph suggests to me that the difference between Boston and Philadelphia is one of degree, not kind, though the late E. Digby Baltzell would beg to differ.
Quote:
The type of people who post here (especially from Boston) have unusual and elevated levels of financial success and career autonomy which affords us the time to postulate things like this. I have the autonomy but not the financial success, that's why I have this time.
Boston's politics and city life throughout much of it is dominated by multigenerational lower middle class people. As is the case in New York and most places. I still voted for it because it has a high number of inquisitive curious and politically active people amongst all classes-not just academia or tech. San Francisco is maybe an exception but I dont know id call it as intellectual as Boston.
I probably spend too much time posting here. But it is a sign that I have autonomy, which is why journalism, which unlike the other professions does not require credentialing beyond the bachelor's degree to practice, falls into the "professional" bucket.
Quote:
I remember a few years ago a couple of friend of mine from Dorchester and Roxbury we got into a deep conversation regarding what was more important at a fundamental-Mathematics or Language, we traversed various cultures, histories and theories in this conversation. We didn't draw a conclusion but to have a conversation like that with young black men from pretty rough backgrounds and impoverished areas is something I don't get in a lot places.(i voted Language-i got surprising push back).
Its the quick wit, satirical nature, and calm observations of Bostonians that has made it a breeding ground for comedy and comedians like Louis CK Patrice Oneal Bill Burr Jay Leno Gary Gulman and many more.
(emphasis added)
I've met more than a few very smart brothas from beat-up Philly 'hoods with whom I could hold conversations of that type. Some of them are in my circle of friends.
But I wouldn't characterize this as typically Philadelphian behavior. So that may be the difference in kind.
NYC doesn't come across as intellectual to me even though you can obviously find a lot of intelligent people there. Too many 'ordinary' people. SF, Boston, and DC just come across to me as the three most likely cities I'd be able to have a deep, thought provoking conversation with a random stranger.on the streets. I put DC in front of Seattle because politics obviously reigns supreme in that city and politics and ideology go hand in hand.
SF because I've always thought SF was a city where I'd envision myself having a deep convo with some random person. Boston because it's the king of academia in the country and Boston just has that posh, polished vibe to it that I don't think you find anywhere else in the country. Even the architecture is posh and refined.
I agree that many give Columbus short shrift, especially after having visited in 2009, but:
As someone who has yet to pass the "Jeopardy!" qualifying test but someone whose friends all want to have on their Quizzo teams, I can tell you that the mere ability to store millions of facts in your brain does not make you an intellectual per se. It's what you do with them that makes the difference.
Similarly, the "dumb" things you list are knowledge, and knowledge more people should have. But they're considered manual, not intellectual, skills: you don't have to reason the tire off your car's wheel, and AFAIK, you can't do a race/gender/class analysis of the practice of reattaching lost buttons onto shirts or coats (though I imagine some cultural studies graduate student has tried). If by including these you wish to make the point that we overvalue some skills and undervalue others, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but that doesn't mean that you can move them from one category to the other willy-nilly.
That NIMBY stuff has nothing to do with intellectual skills at all. In fact, much of it is people thinking with their gut rather than their head. That, or it's pure economic self-interest crossed with fear.
This paragraph suggests to me that the difference between Boston and Philadelphia is one of degree, not kind, though the late E. Digby Baltzell would beg to differ.
I probably spend too much time posting here. But it is a sign that I have autonomy, which is why journalism, which unlike the other professions does not require credentialing beyond the bachelor's degree to practice, falls into the "professional" bucket.
(emphasis added)
I've met more than a few very smart brothas from beat-up Philly 'hoods with whom I could hold conversations of that type. Some of them are in my circle of friends.
But I wouldn't characterize this as typically Philadelphian behavior. So that may be the difference in kind.
Yea its of degree not kind. Hell our current mayor is a recovering alcoholic who was shot at 2am in a Dorchester Playground in 1993 and refused to cooperate with police at the time. Prior to becoming mayor he wa sa state senator from Dorchester and prior to that he was a Local Union Boss. he attended Boston College as a night school commuter.
City Council president was a teenage mother who attended Black Panther Freedom school in Roxbury as a youth. Our last mayor only got a "degree" via Boston Colleges night school and was barely ineligible. We called him Mumbles Menino-simple phrases he couldn't say,, tecacher thought he was 'slow' in school and he was a C student. The people leading boston and voting in Boston are largely not the professional or well educated class-that's in apart why you don't see the same type of. overarching liberalism you see in SF and Seattle. Far more "salt of the earth people running the show and voting. And far more poverty franklin those cities. SF is 11% resident in poverty while Boston is 19-21% and Philadelphia is 24-26%. Boston's childhood poverty rate is 30% and near poverty rate is above 40%-thats before adjustning for COL.
Philly is fairly intellectual though. I've met the same folks in NYC NJ CT but definitely not Baltimore, Maryland/DC/VA and points south. Not folks who still live in the hood at least.
Difference between Boston in Philly is that intellectualism is sort of admired and well respected amongst almost all walks of life (almost). In hood areas of Philly violence and poverty and all that goes along with to seems to be viewed as a way of life... a way of being if you will. Guys put on a very hard and seemingly impenetrable facade because that's just how you conduct yourself if you're from a certain area. In Boston wanting, sporadic violence, and segregation are viewed as facts of life to be corrected and not a way of life-of course there are a good deal of exceptions but that just the general vibe i've gotten.
Boston is not a place i'was ever told as a child hat i was "talking white" instead people-even young kids literally ask "what school you go to?"
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 01-09-2020 at 06:28 AM..
Yea its of degree not kind. Hell our current mayor is a recovering alcoholic who was shot at 2am in a Dorchester Playground in 1993 and refused to cooperate with police at the time. Prior to becoming mayor he wa sa state senator from Dorchester and prior to that he was a Local Union Boss. he attended Boston College as a night school commuter.
City Council president was a teenage mother who attended Black Panther Freedom school in Roxbury as a youth. Our last mayor only got a "degree" via Boston Colleges night school and was barely ineligible. We called him Mumbles Menino-simple phrases he couldn't say,, tecacher thought he was 'slow' in school and he was a C student. The people leading boston and voting in Boston are largely not the professional or well educated class-that's in apart why you don't see the same type of. overarching liberalism you see in SF and Seattle. Far more "salt of the earth people running the show and voting. And far more poverty franklin those cities. SF is 11% resident in poverty while Boston is 19-21% and Philadelphia is 24-26%. Boston's childhood poverty rate is 30% and near poverty rate is above 40%-thats before adjustning for COL.
Philly is fairly intellectual though. I've met the same folks in NYC NJ CT but definitely not Baltimore, Maryland/DC/VA and points south. Not folks who still live in the hood at least.
Difference between Boston in Philly is that intellectualism is sort of admired and well respected amongst almost all walks of life (almost). In hood areas of Philly violence and poverty and all that goes along with to seems to be viewed as a way of life... a way of being if you will. Guys put on a very hard and seemingly impenetrable facade because that's just how you conduct yourself if you're from a certain area. In Boston wanting, sporadic violence, and segregation are viewed as facts of life to be corrected and not a way of life-of course there are a good deal of exceptions but that just the general vibe i've gotten.
Boston is not a place i'was ever told as a child hat i was "talking white" instead people-even young kids literally ask "what school you go to?"
Great post--tried to rep but could not. Boston is only #1 in this by default--the fact that it should be thought of as 'most intellectual' in the country is an indictment of the rest of the country. Personally I place NYC #2 (and I defer to Heel82's arguments as to why) and I think arguments can be made for a bunch of other places (SF, DC, Seattle, Minneapolis, Raleigh, Chicago, possibly Portland) at 3, although ultimately I chose SF as my third.
Oh, and the to the former IBM engineer who thinks that reading obscure philosophers on the train is likely done 'for show'--this might come as a shock to you, but some people do in fact enjoy such pursuits. What is to be gained, image-wise, by reading Zizek on the train when one is most likely surrounded by either people who don't know who he is at all, or people like you are just as likely to judge the reader negatively/as being pretentious? Clearly not much--I'd say that reading philosophy in public almost anywhere in the US is almost done in spite of possible reception from the general public, not because of it. That conjecture of yours reflected rather poorly on you, in my eyes anyway. I say this is as a lifelong philosophy enthusiast who sits around upstate bookstores reading whatever I feel like reading on a given day, knowing that no one around me is going to care. Clearly I need to come down to NYC to find my tribe of still-isolated, alone-in-the-crowd intellectuals.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 01-10-2020 at 11:18 AM..
Great post--tried to rep but could not. Boston is only #1 in this by default--the fact that it should be thought of as 'most intellectual' in the country is an indictment of the rest of the country. Personally I place NYC #2 (and I defer to Heel82's arguments as to why) and I think arguments can be made for a bunch of other places (SF, DC, Seattle, Minneapolis, Raleigh, Chicago, possibly Portland) at 3, although ultimately I chose SF as my third.
Oh, and the to the former IBM engineer who thinks that reading obscure philosophers on the train is likely done 'for show'--this might come as a shock to you, but some people do in fact enjoy such pursuits. What is to be gained, image-wise, by reading Zizek on the train when one is most likely surrounded by either people who don't know who he is at all, or people like you are just as likely to judge the reader negatively/as being pretentious? Clearly not much--I'd say that reading philosophy in public almost anywhere in the US is almost done in spite of possible reception from the general public, not because of it. That conjecture of yours reflected rather poorly on you, in my eyes anyway. I say this is as a lifelong philosophy enthusiast who sits around upstate bookstores reading whatever I feel like reading on a given day, knowing that no one around me is going to care. Clearly I need to come down to NYC to find my tribe of still-isolated, alone-in-the-crowd intellectuals.
thanks and i meant to say our last mayor was barely intelligible
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