Atlanta vs Houston vs Dallas, Which City will be more urban at the end of the decade? (best, versus)
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Houston density - 3,600 residents/mile
Dallas density - 3,900 residents/mile
Atlanta density - 3,800 residents/mile
posting the simple density stats like this without context is not going to tell the whole story. urban areas get closer to the whole story though. post those numbers. also remember which city has the largest city limits. take the weighted density starting from the core and go 1, 5, 10, etc , miles out. You'll see how they truly rank then with Houston, small gap then Dallas, bigger gap then Atlanta.
Houston gives off a pulsing vibe when youre there. Atlanta really doesnt aside from a few core areas. Even Dallas does more. I think a lot of this is because you can see more of the city in Houston/Dallas whereas Atlanta is covered by more trees. This on top of the urban area density differences.
All of the links are of older pics of each city. There's been a lot of infill in all three since those photos were taken.
I know. That's why for some links I say every single empty lot has been erased. The focus for me was more the grid and the heft of the built areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walker1962
Houston density - 3,600 residents/mile
Dallas density - 3,900 residents/mile
Atlanta density - 3,800 residents/mile
Houston city limits grow around other cities and annexes airports and huge parks without annexing the neighborhoods so city density doesn't give an accurate picture. The UA evens out size difference for all three:
UA Population:
Houston- 5,853,575
DFW - 5,732,354
Atlanta - 4,999,259
UA density
Houston - 3,339.8 ppsm
DFW - 3,281.5 ppsm
ATL- 2,040.1 ppsm
Houston has a more populated and dense urban area than the other two. And Houston and Atlanta had higher peak densities than Dallas. And Houston maintains 10,000 ppsm or higher densities longer than the other two. The links I posted of the cores show that it is more uniformly connected and adjacent census block population density also supports that.
Last edited by atadytic19; 01-28-2023 at 07:32 AM..
Atlanta doesn't have a continuous landscape of concrete in every direction of it's metro like Houston and Dallas but imo Atlanta has more urbanized suburbs than both Dallas and Houston. Atlanta has burbs like Decatur/ Smyrna/ Brookhaven/Sandy Springs that feel more urban than what I've seen definitely in Houston and even against Dallas too.
Now I do think burbs like Plano/Frisco feel closer to those particular burbs in Atlanta. The Woodlands/ Sugar Land would be the closest but imo those are still not as urban as some of those premier burbs in Atlanta metro.
Also not to mention Atlanta's terrain won't allow it to sprawl exactly like Houston and Dallas.
I've lived in all three metros and this is NOT what I felt about Atlanta's suburbs. One issue no one seems to note is that what's a suburb for Atlanta would easily be IN the boundaries of both Dallas and Houston.
Decatur/ Smyrna/ Brookhaven/Sandy Springs are as close downtown Atlanta than west Houston is to downtown Houston or far north Dallas or Southwest Dallas/Red Bird Mall are to downtown Dallas. Also, I think Atlanta's well known tree canopy gives its a good feel for urbanity. But as I posted also today, Dallas has the highest density/mile. Decatur/Brookhaven is like East Dallas/White Rock Lake. Smyrna is like Irving, TX but without the high # of Fortune 500 companies (1 vs 8) that that Texas City has. Sandy Springs I never thought as urban at all.
Last, distance-wise, The Woodlands is like living in Alpharetta but on a much bigger scale of development. Dallas equivalent is Frisco/far north Plano - Toyota, Chase, Liberty Mutual, FDIC, FNMA, NTT Data, Capital One, JC Penney, Frito Lay, Dr. Pepper all have big regional campuses or HQs there.
What natural boundaries does Atlanta have? No water features, yeah its hilly but its not prominent like the hills of Austin's Hill Country. It has a couple "mountains" in the metro but nothing major.
And Austin should be included. Yeah its smaller than thee 3 but it easily has the best downtown of any of these. It's also building the most downtown of any of these cities. And its not polycentric like the others, most of the development is centered around in or around downtown.
None of these cities have a nightlife street such as Austin's 6th street. or Rainey st. I see more pedestrians out in Austin then I do in Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta. Midtown and downtown Atlanta are a ghost town at night. Oh and not urban related but personally I think Austin has the best outdoors of the 3 and is also the best looking. First of all its the only one with a proper waterfront (Houston ugly brown bayou doesnt count and neither does the Trinity floodplain). Plus it has the hill country to the west which definitely gives it a California feel. Both Dallas and Houston are flat, and while Atlanta is hilly, they're not prominent or visible. Like if you're driving in Atlanta you can defintely tell its a hilly metro but its nothing like Austin's west side. Barton Springs...Lake Travis surrounded by hills...etc. And there's nothing like SXSW or ACL in these other 3 cities.
SXSW and ACL are great but DFW has the State Fair, Houston has the Livestock Show and Rodeo. They both have pro sports teams and host on occasion national sporting events and concerts that skip Austin because they have Domed Stadiums. Does Austin have a big opera house? No. The Lakes region of Austin is great, but DFW is ringed by 9 lakes in an 80-mile radius. DFW really has two of everything.
Point is, drive 5 miles outside of Atlanta proper, and you're suddenly in no man's land.
It would take about 25 miles driving east or south out of Dallas to reach that zone.
It would take 50 or 60 miles driving out of Houston in all directions to hit that mark.
That's my point.
That 50-60 miles outside of Houston? No. I'm a native of Houston too. DFW is a larger MSA population-wise so not sure how you can say Houston is denser. 60 miles west of Houston is like Sealy, ain't squat there. Same thing going southwest past Rosenberg or NW past Cypress..its COUNTRY! Prairie View looks no different now than 30 years ago.
That 50-60 miles outside of Houston? No. I'm a native of Houston too. DFW is a larger MSA population-wise so not sure how you can say Houston is denser. 60 miles west of Houston is like Sealy, ain't squat there. Same thing going southwest past Rosenberg or NW past Cypress..its COUNTRY! Prairie View looks no different now than 30 years ago.
To be fair Houston’s UA is denser than Dallas’ but the difference is very slight that it would be hard to notice when in person. atadytic19 put up the stats. Now the difference between Houston/Dallas UA and Atlanta UA is definitely noticeable. Atlanta has the best urban nodes but also has the worst sprawl of the three imo.
That 50-60 miles outside of Houston? No. I'm a native of Houston too. DFW is a larger MSA population-wise so not sure how you can say Houston is denser. 60 miles west of Houston is like Sealy, ain't squat there. Same thing going southwest past Rosenberg or NW past Cypress..its COUNTRY! Prairie View looks no different now than 30 years ago.
Wait so a large metro has to be denser than a smaller one? So is Atlanta denser than Miami?
If you're saying it feels more sprawly and endless then I agree. Atlanta's core counties of Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, Clayton, and Dekalb are the built-up areas with higher population densities and Forsyth is building up now. Outside of these areas, the other counties are very rural with low populations and small towns.
Gwinnett and Clayton are basically bedroom counties with folks having to head west/southwest or north for work, i.e. out of county.
Houston easily is the most built-up IMO, but also the least vibrant of the three for pedestrians. Atlanta peaks higher than Houston or Dallas in Midtown, but it is a small area, and Downtown Atlanta seems to be the worst of the downtowns. Dallas is kind of the middle ground I guess, it has some nice areas but nothing that stands out to me as far as "urban".
Overall they seem kind of evenly matched I suppose. If you really want to live an urban lifestyle in one of these three cities I feel like Atlanta is the best bet simply because Midtown is the most dense and walkable neighborhood available here. That said, none of these cities are great; I think Miami is the only southern big city that really looks impressive on this front (New Orleans is very urban of course, but not a big city).
As far as "end of the decade" that is hard for me to predict. I suspect the three will remain fairly close to each other.
"Atlanta peaks higher than Houston or Dallas in Midtown". Atlanta has maybe more office development north of downtown, but Dallas has leaned more residential/entertainment development with a new opera house, new urban park, new playhouses, and a new museum of natural science. This stretch goes up to the enclaves of the Park Cities (Dallas's Buckhead mansion equivalents and home to SMU); then one goes to the area across from NorthPark Mall. However, the Hall Group, a Dallas-based development company had built several 20-30 story office towers in Uptown as well. Regions Bank, Rolex, Heritage Auction House, PWC and Salesforce.com. Goldman Sachs officially announced in 2022 plans to build an 800K sf tower near the American Airlines Center in Uptown. https://therealdeal.com/texas/2022/1...ill-cost-500m/
I don't see a lot of difference between all three as far as neighborhoods just outside their downtown areas.
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