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posting the simple density stats like this without context is not going to tell the whole story. urban areas get closer to the whole story though. post those numbers. also remember which city has the largest city limits. take the weighted density starting from the core and go 1, 5, 10, etc , miles out. You'll see how they truly rank then with Houston, small gap then Dallas, bigger gap then Atlanta.
Houston gives off a pulsing vibe when youre there. Atlanta really doesnt aside from a few core areas. Even Dallas does more. I think a lot of this is because you can see more of the city in Houston/Dallas whereas Atlanta is covered by more trees. This on top of the urban area density differences.
I've lived in all three cities for at least 5 years each. That "pulsing vibe" of which you speak for Houston is just the driver behind you leaning on his horn. lol. Density takes into account, 1, 5, 10 miles radius. And certainly, downtown, the vibe is average at best. Its definitely gotten better with Toyota Center, MM Park and the great redo of the old Post Office. But I used to work at Foleys department store and my first job out of college, our district office was downtown with a 2nd on Allen Dr. I know my hometown well.
To be fair Houston’s UA is denser than Dallas’ but the difference is very slight that it would be hard to notice when in person. atadytic19 put up the stats. Now the difference between Houston/Dallas UA and Atlanta UA is definitely noticeable. Atlanta has the best urban nodes but also has the worst sprawl of the three imo.
Atlanta reminds me a lot more of D.C. in its layout and growth pattern. Small core city with large suburban counties. The one thing too that is a possible detriment for Dallas is unlike ATL or Houston, it has Fort Worth, a major city in its own right as part of the MSA. There is no equivalent for metro Atlanta or Houston. Not Alpharetta, not the Woodlands.
Wait so a large metro has to be denser than a smaller one? So is Atlanta denser than Miami?
No it doesn't have to be. I lived in ATL, Houston and Dallas. When it was written that one can reach rural areas more than quickly in Dallas than Houston, I disagreed.
Bishop Arts District in Oak Cliff. The area has grown (gentrification) a lot in the last few years. Nearly 4,000 units have been built in that area since 2012. This area also is served by the Dallas Streetcar, which is planned to link to the MATA. It is 4 blocks from the historic Jefferson Blvd commercial district, an area that’s also being prepared for revitalization as well. Jefferson Blvd was built overtime starting about 100 years ago and still is the longest shopping street in Dallas. With 10 blocks (1 mile) of storefront retail mixed in with a few office buildings. The majority of it still being intact with only minimal demolition. Complete streets and two way conversion have taken place on multiple roadways in the area. The City of Dallas started on a new Deck Park in the area to spur even more economic development. It will connect the Dallas Zoo in East Oak Cliff to Bishop Arts and Jefferson Blvd in North Oak Cliff. Both areas already have a significant draw. With the Dallas Zoo attracting over 1 million visitors a year and Bishop Arts being one of Dallas’ trendiest spots. Without that, the potential economic benefits of this deck park wouldn’t be as great IMO.
(Main commercial district until 8:00 and picks back up again at 14:00)
Just a little to illustrate the efforts to connect Jefferson and Bishop Arts into one. The city recently finished the complete streets project on Bishop and Madison Aves.
From these photos, you can see Jefferson Blvd (stretches 10 blocks) and the newer development on south Bishop Ave (four blocks away from Bishop Arts). There’s about 500,000 sq ft of GLA retail space in Bishop Arts (Not including Jefferson).
These are Google maps links of the area and show the very rapid changes taking place in the area. Please feel free to use “see more dates†tap to see the progression that has occurred in the last 5 years.
This is the development style that’s being built in Bishop Arts.
Going back in time, you can see the added improvements on this street as well. Also, new historical acorn lamps, wider sidewalks, narrower street, trees, and dedicated on street parking. It gives it a more urban feel due to the anticipated growth. The core of the district is being expanded further south, and phase two of this development will continue the mixed use development south of 9th street. 9th street was recently approved by the city to be abandoned, so the developers can turn it into a woonerf. Here’s a video in 2016 of the developer talking about extending the main core of the district @ 0:40
The new improved streets also connects with the historic Jefferson Blvd. Which is 100% intentional and planned by the city when the area was upzoned. This video from 2018 explains it
This is new development built/occurring on 7th st, Davis and Zang.
The first link is 7th St. The empty lot across the street with the older bar called “The Local Oak†is the phase 2 location of the development that officially broke ground this week. Renderings
The new improved streets also connects with the historic Jefferson Blvd. Which is 100% intentional and planned by the city when the area was upzoned. This video from 2018 explains it
What hurts Legacy West is that the Dallas North Tollway bisects it and the City of Plano didn't build any pedestrian exclusive crossings over the freeway (so you can only walk along the roads).
They're building a $2 billion mixed-used district (similar to Avalon in Alpharetta but with taller buildings) in Perimeter Center, but unlike Avalon, it will be connected to Marta.
Atlanta reminds me a lot more of D.C. in its layout and growth pattern. Small core city with large suburban counties. The one thing too that is a possible detriment for Dallas is unlike ATL or Houston, it has Fort Worth, a major city in its own right as part of the MSA. There is no equivalent for metro Atlanta or Houston. Not Alpharetta, not the Woodlands.
I don't think anyone sees it as a detriment. It's a great advantage having that right next to us. It only enhances the offerings in a close proximity. Dallas isn't exactly competing with Fort Worth in any regard, it's still the dominant city in the MSA. There's a lot of development between the two cities that continues to connect them better.
I was just in Atlanta, staying in the Hotel District downtown. There were buildings going up all over the place, and the streets were quite busy for the most part. Underground seems to be making a revival of sorts, as I saw quite a bit of foot traffic there, Centennial Park area was ALWAYS packed. Peachtree, Ted Turner, Baker stayed busy day in and day out, including late at night... It was my first time staying Downtown -- I normally stay in Midtown -- and I was pleasantly surprised.
I was just in Atlanta, staying in the Hotel District downtown. There were buildings going up all over the place, and the streets were quite busy for the most part. Underground seems to be making a revival of sorts, as I saw quite a bit of foot traffic there, Centennial Park area was ALWAYS packed. Peachtree, Ted Turner, Baker stayed busy day in and day out, including late at night... It was my first time staying Downtown -- I normally stay in Midtown -- and I was pleasantly surprised.
Imagine what it will be in a few years when the $5 billion Centennial Yards is completed.
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