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I don’t really care about suburban density. Call it old school, but density of strip malls and smaller lot single family homes does nothing for me.
When we talk “urban”, I’m mostly looking at the primary core first, then regional suburban cores, then neighborhoods surrounding the primary urban core.
Atlanta doesn’t destroy, but it moderately leads by this metric. Dallas would be next.
Exactly this. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlionjr
Kind of depends on what part of the metro you live in too. For example, when I lived in Chamblee (which is a intown burb) my Wife would commute to work in Dunwoody and I would go to work in Duluth. That commute from Chamblee to Duluth felt no different than similar routes I would take from suburban Houston into the city of Houston. And even the north burbs west of Chamblee such as Dunwoody/ Sandy Springs/ Cumberland / Smyrna/ Vinings/ Marietta/ Alpharetta(farther up north) felt similar in ways to Houston and Dallas and actually more urbanized than any burbs I ran across in either Houston and Dallas. This was especially true when the Battery opened up in Cobb County. So a lot of North suburban Atlanta feels similar and even more urban where you wouldn't need to drive a distance for basic needs.
But pretty much every other cluster of burbs outside of 285 (east/west/south) definitely feel more rural than DFW and Houston. Then there's exurbs like Newnan/ McDonough/ Dallas(the actual suburb of Atlanta) that don't even make sense. They're so far removed and separated by so much forest that I couldn't wrap my mind how these towns were still apart of Metro Atlanta. With Houston and Dallas there's constant infill to some degree from every corner of sprawl.
I'd also say that it's a bit more complex than people make it out to be. There is a clear "western" style the Texas cities adhere too (massive gridded cities where the suburbs were stacked on as they expanded) and that's on full display in Houston and Dallas. Where as in the east you have this situation where the primary city is relatively small and surround by well developed small towns that eventually got annexed or became suburbs as well as more modern suburban development the further out you go.
This is all splitting hairs because a suburb is a suburb. We can tell ourselves things like "well it's on a grid so it's better" but how does that make a difference in "urbanity" when you are driving to everything anyway?
I don’t really care about suburban density. Call it old school, but density of strip malls and smaller lot single family homes does nothing for me.
When we talk “urban”, I’m mostly looking at the primary core first, then regional suburban cores, then neighborhoods surrounding the primary urban core.
Atlanta doesn’t destroy, but it moderately leads by this metric. Dallas would be next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbtoy7891
Exactly this. Took the words right out of my mouth.
Going to chime in with another +1 on this. I'll add I'm cool with mixed-use walkable high-density served by frequent transit in regional cores going to and from primary cores and would count those, too, alongside what's in the primary core.
I don’t really care about suburban density. Call it old school, but density of strip malls and smaller lot single family homes does nothing for me.
When we talk “urban”, I’m mostly looking at the primary core first, then regional suburban cores, then neighborhoods surrounding the primary urban core.
Atlanta doesn’t destroy, but it moderately leads by this metric. Dallas would be next.
Suburban density is why the Texas cities feel larger and more vibrant thoughout. In Atlanta the big city feel drops quickly once you stray too far off the beaten path.
And it's not an east v. west thing, since Miami is an eastern city on a grid, and it outdoes all three of these cities when it comes to consistent density overall.
Suburban density is why the Texas cities feel larger and more vibrant thoughout. In Atlanta the big city feel drops quickly once you stray too far off the beaten path.
And it's not an east v. west thing, since Miami is an eastern city on a grid, and it outdoes all three of these cities when it comes to consistent density overall.
And...? Who cares about "the grid?" It doesn't feel any larger than those three metros. It's still very much suburban, strip mall, car-centric density throughout.
Suburban density is why the Texas cities feel larger and more vibrant thoughout. In Atlanta the big city feel drops quickly once you stray too far off the beaten path.
And it's not an east v. west thing, since Miami is an eastern city on a grid, and it outdoes all three of these cities when it comes to consistent density overall.
They don't feel more vibrant throughout and larger is subjective, as well. They may feel more extensive, but if you are in the core of Atlanta vs Dallas and Houston, Atlanta feels larger.
Atlanta is the one that hold the record for least dense major urban area in the world.
Houston packs in a million more people in a third less space
Houston - 5,853,575 in 1,752.69
DFW - 5,732,354 in 1,746.90
Atlanta - 5,100,112 in 2,553.05 now that's sprawly
Doesn't Atlanta's tree coverage contribute to that? The first time I've ever went to Atlanta, I was blown away by the height and amount of trees. Since Dallas is on a prairie and Houston is on a gulf costal plain, I think that may contribute as to why the sprawl is denser overall.
Just for comparison, Atlanta is 135 sq mi of land with 500,000 people. Southern Dallas, the most underdeveloped half of Dallas is 208 sq mi with 800,000 people. According to a study released last year, Dallas has the most amount of vacant out of the all the big cities in America. There's 90,739 vacant acres or 141 sq mi. The majority of that being in Southern Dallas. Just goes to show how much infill can be built, if the city actually comes up with a plan to do so. BTW, I don't think it's large amounts of continuous land, more so like vacant or underutilized areas that can be developed. The most consistent vacant land is a long or south of I-20 or near the Potter's House in SW Dallas. This is a complete guesstimation, but Dallas proper could easily add an additional 500K people.
They don't feel more vibrant throughout and larger is subjective, as well. They may feel more extensive, but if you are in the core of Atlanta vs Dallas and Houston, Atlanta feels larger.
Think about what you mean by "extensive". Why would one have that perception when Atlanta's urban area is technically larger than both Dallas' and Houston's? It's because the big city feel is more widespread in the Texas cities, which is what I'm referring to when I mention vibrancy.
What we're talking about here is the fact that the Texas metros have better bones in place to build larger and denser cities. They could catch up to Atlanta in core density before Atlanta could become a denser urban area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallaz
Doesn't Atlanta's tree coverage contribute to that? The first time I've ever went to Atlanta, I was blown away by the height and amount of trees. Since Dallas is on a prairie and Houston is on a gulf costal plain, I think that may contribute as to why the sprawl is denser overall.
This definitely plays a part, as Atlanta does go out of its way to preserve its forestation, but you also have a lot of super blocks, winding roads and houses built on huge lots. It's simply a more suburban metro area by design.
They don't feel more vibrant throughout and larger is subjective, as well. They may feel more extensive, but if you are in the core of Atlanta vs Dallas and Houston, Atlanta feels larger.
Houston still feels larger than Atlanta in the core even if Atlanta is more urban imo. While urban and big city feel are related in some ways, they don’t always translate 1 to 1 in my book.
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