Atlanta vs Houston vs Dallas, Which City will be more urban at the end of the decade? (largest, life)
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What I meant by city limits is that NIMBY-ism gets formed by a sense... "this is a small community" with a small downtown and a high school attached and even if development floods this area it should stay the same. That mentality is basically nonexistent in Houston compared to other cities because of development patterns. Houston is one of the only places where a grand historic building can get uprooted for an apartment complex and everyone kind of shrugs and goes about their day. One of you mentioned South Atlanta. Which is a lot like Houston, lots of unincorporated area between cities.
Because of this, Houston's potential to develop density is much more imo than Atlanta or Dallas, who can both develop their cores but the second you get into the West University equivalents of Highland Park and some suburbs of Atlanta, theirs that sense that we aren't Atlanta/Dallas/Houston we don't want that development here, same with rich neighborhoods in these places.
Density begets Urbanity. Some cities are urban despite planners not planning for pedestrians above. As Houston area get's denser (By this I mean the areas within 99 currently as the urban area might get less dense as more and more subdivisions are built with ample space between them), urbanity increases with density, if an area is dense enough even without sidewalks/poor sidewalk development people will just walk anyway.
I think you misunderstood.....He was saying that the KT is not needed to activate neighborhoods because the neighborhoods around KT are already activated!!!
And I don't know why people associate "URBAN" with the amount of buildings and their height.(Houstonians)
Neighborhoods are considered "Urban" because of the street front activity and interaction. Not by how far or long a strip of highrises go.....That's the only reason people in Houston think its urban.
Let me be clear.
The Beltline added to the urbanity as it created spaces for people to connect with the existing built environment across the city using a TRAIL to access new parks that are a oart of the Beltline plan of which Historic Forth Ward Park and Westside Park are two of the biggest of many parks and green space along the way. In addition to INCREASE density and urban living in intown neighborhoods.
Yes buildings do assist in urbanity but its how the buildings are oriented for the access of people who will use them.
Think of the Beltline and Katy Trail aI "buildings"..
The Beltline was built so people could access it from existing neighborhoods.Like a residential building next to a grocery store.it a part of not just one area but the entire city.
Dallas will have the advantage of the core neighborhoods around the city center being right up against the downtown. I’m hoping I’m around to see the affects the streetcar expansions and subway line will have down the road.
How is that any different than Atlanta and its neighborhoods around the core?
Let me be clear.
The Beltline added to the urbanity as it created spaces for people to connect with the existing built environment across the city using a TRAIL to access new parks that are a oart of the Beltline plan of which Historic Forth Ward Park and Westside Park are two of the biggest of many parks and green space along the way. In addition to INCREASE density and urban living in intown neighborhoods.
Yes buildings do assist in urbanity but its how the buildings are oriented for the access of people who will use them.
Think of the Beltline and Katy Trail aI "buildings"..
The Beltline was built so people could access it from existing neighborhoods.Like a residential building next to a grocery store.it a part of not just one area but the entire city.
And what you described is different from the KT how? I’m still just not seeing the uniqueness some are trying to portray.
Also people were quoting 3.5 mile length for the KT. That was just the length of Phase 1. I think they are done or almost done with Phase 4 by now which connects directly to a much larger trail system. Online sources seem to not be updated.
What I meant by city limits is that NIMBY-ism gets formed by a sense... "this is a small community" with a small downtown and a high school attached and even if development floods this area it should stay the same. That mentality is basically nonexistent in Houston compared to other cities because of development patterns. Houston is one of the only places where a grand historic building can get uprooted for an apartment complex and everyone kind of shrugs and goes about their day. One of you mentioned South Atlanta. Which is a lot like Houston, lots of unincorporated area between cities.
Because of this, Houston's potential to develop density is much more imo than Atlanta or Dallas, who can both develop their cores but the second you get into the West University equivalents of Highland Park and some suburbs of Atlanta, theirs that sense that we aren't Atlanta/Dallas/Houston we don't want that development here, same with rich neighborhoods in these places.
Density begets Urbanity. Some cities are urban despite planners not planning for pedestrians above. As Houston area get's denser (By this I mean the areas within 99 currently as the urban area might get less dense as more and more subdivisions are built with ample space between them), urbanity increases with density, if an area is dense enough even without sidewalks/poor sidewalk development people will just walk anyway.
You got it wrong.NIMBYISM is in areas like Buckhead ,Druid Hills,Clifyon /Emory Corridor, All those are in the city itself.
Areas like Dunwoody, Sandy Springs,Peachtree Corners etc are all growing and urbanizing just like the city of Atlanta.There while goal is urbanizing and becoming more walkable.
Even on the South in not so much East Point but for sure College Park next door is ramping up it desire to be more urban and dense.
Its not until you get maybe 10-30 miles out from the Perimeter will you see some push back like with MARTA expansion.
Gwinnet County rejected it but its a huge county.Some of it is suburban with relative density where transit exist and people want more but then you go further in Gwinnet like in WInder,then you see push back as those areas are closer to being rural low density.
How is that any different than Atlanta and its neighborhoods around the core?
Well what is considered the active areas of Midtown are up closer to the 10th/14th areas. Imagine moving that down to where Peachtree crosses the connector and build a bridge park over the Connector. That would be a huge difference in the urban makeup of Atlanta’s core rather than being strung out. That’s how the Downtown/Uptown relationship is in Dallas.
You can walk across the street from the DT Dallas Farmers Market area and be in the thick of Deep Ellum.
Victory Park blends seamlessly with the DT West End area.
There’s just more space between activity in the Atlanta areas. Which makes it feel less cohesive.
And what you described is different from the KT how? I’m still just not seeing the uniqueness some are trying to portray.
Also people were quoting 3.5 mile length for the KT. That was just the length of Phase 1. I think they are done or almost done with Phase 4 by now which connects directly to a much larger trail system. Online sources seem to not be updated.
I willl add that The Beltline itself when completed will be 22 miles however many current trail systems like Path 400,Protor Creek Greenway etc,will or already connect to the Beltline .
Thats the big difference when you dont have something as cohesive for development and access to the city wont be as consistent which from what I have seen on the Katy Trail is focusing more on making it a greenspace than a functional mode to get around the city
You got it wrong.NIMBYISM is in areas like Buckhead ,Druid Hills,Clifyon /Emory Corridor, All those are in the city itself.
Areas like Dunwoody, Sandy Springs,Peachtree Corners etc are all growing and urbanizing just like the city of Atlanta.There while goal is urbanizing and becoming more walkable.
Even on the South in not so much East Point but for sure College Park next door is ramping up it desire to be more urban and dense.
Its not until you get maybe 10-30 miles out from the Perimeter will you see some push back like with MARTA expansion.
Gwinnet County rejected it but its a huge county.Some of it is suburban with relative density where transit exist and people want more but then you go further in Gwinnet like in WInder,then you see push back as those areas are closer to being rural low density.
I'd vouch to say it's more so the politicians that are rejecting MARTA by sabotaging its votes rather than it's people.
Admittedly some of them did have valid reasons for rejecting it in Gwinnett. They complained that the increase in taxes would not be justified by an expansion only to Norcross where as the rest of the county would still have to not only pay for it but also drive to access it which I personally understand, even for those in Winder. I really wonder if Commuter Rail on existing railroad would work better for Gwinnett at this point rather than shelling out the cost of extending MARTA throughout it.
I'm unsure how the vast inhabitants of N.Fulton and Cobb really feel about it but I personally think it's more so a political issue around local leaders than it is the citizens today...maybe about 20 years ago it would be true but I know alot of people in those counties that do want MARTA rail.
I dont really think Suburban Atlanta is anywhere near anti-urban as it once was.
Well what is considered the active areas of Midtown are up closer to the 10th/14th areas. Imagine moving that down to where Peachtree crosses the connector and build a bridge park over the Connector. That would be a huge difference in the urban makeup of Atlanta’s core rather than being strung out. That’s how the Downtown/Uptown relationship is in Dallas.
You can walk across the street from the DT Dallas Farmers Market area and be in the thick of Deep Ellum.
Victory Park blends seamlessly with the DT West End area.
There’s just more space between activity in the Atlanta areas. Which makes it feel less cohesive.
Actually capping the connector is going through studies as we speak. However you have all the area off Northside Dr.,Marrietta,Howell Mill Castleberry Hill just prime for growth and its.
West Midtown wasnt even a destination like it is today.Why go over the connector when you have existing areas and neighborhoods to the west ripe for development?
Space over the interstate is not relevant when you have close neighborhood already adjacent to core .
I'd vouch to say it's more so the politicians that are rejecting MARTA by sabotaging its votes rather than it's people.
Admittedly some of them did have valid reasons for rejecting it in Gwinnett. They complained that the increase in taxes would not be justified by an expansion only to Norcross where as the rest of the county would still have to not only pay for it but also drive to access it which I personally understand, even for those in Winder. I really wonder if Commuter Rail on existing railroad would work better for Gwinnett at this point rather than shelling out the cost of extending MARTA throughout it.
I'm unsure how the vast inhabitants of N.Fulton and Cobb really feel about it but I personally think it's more so a political issue around local leaders than it is the citizens today...maybe about 20 years ago it would be true but I know alot of people in those counties that do want MARTA rail.
I dont really think Suburban Atlanta is anywhere near anti-urban as it once was.
Its not. Look at Clayton County now having MARTA.I think Clayton is doing fairly decent job in growing because of MARTA.
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....That's the only reason people in Houston think its urban.
