Atlanta vs Houston vs Dallas, Which City will be more urban at the end of the decade? (economy, live)
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Like I stated before. In core urbanity, Atlanta takes this with relative ease. Houston being the next step and then Dallas.
In overall metro urbanity, Houston because its density remains super consistent throughout its sprawl, Dallas, and then Atlanta because density just tanks after you leave I-285.
Like I stated before. In core urbanity, Atlanta takes this with relative ease. Houston being the next step and then Dallas.
In overall metro urbanity, Houston because its density remains super consistent throughout its sprawl, Dallas, and then Atlanta because density just tanks after you leave I-285.
Density tanks in Houston too after you leave the Loop doesnt it?
Density tanks in Houston too after you leave the Loop doesnt it?
No. Not as much as it does in Atlanta.
Houston metro area takes up less land than Atlanta metro area but has a higher population. Atlanta metro becomes VERY sprawly and rural with very large sections of undeveloped land in regions. Combine this with the metro Atlanta area offering far more acres per lot than a typical Texan housing community and the difference becomes blatantly apparent. This to me is why Atlanta doesnt really compare well to DFW and Houston but more so to D.C. and Boston.
Houston and DFW feel pretty urban/suburban throughout their sprawl where it usually just suddenly -ends- where Atlanta is very gradient in transitioning from urban to rural. For an example of what I mean, look at Northern Frisco where Dallas N.Tollway ends, then look at Alpharetta transitioning into Cumming.
The developed areas of Frisco for example look just as developed as Plano and just a hair less dense than the intown Dallas areas (the place is littered with Multi Family Homes, Apartments just as much as it is SFH's and McMansions). Houston is fairly similar until you reach Conroe.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 01-20-2020 at 09:04 PM..
Houston metro area takes up less land than Atlanta metro area but has a higher population. Atlanta metro becomes VERY sprawly and rural with very large sections of undeveloped land in regions. Combine this with the metro Atlanta area offering far more acres per lot than a typical Texan housing community and the difference becomes blatantly apparent. This to me is why Atlanta doesnt really compare well to DFW and Houston but more so to D.C. and Boston.
Houston and DFW feel pretty urban/suburban throughout their sprawl where it usually just suddenly -ends- where Atlanta is very gradient in transitioning from urban to rural. For an example of what I mean, look at Northern Frisco where Dallas N.Tollway ends, then look at Alpharetta transitioning into Cumming.
The developed areas of Frisco for example look just as developed as Plano and just a hair less dense than the intown Dallas areas (the place is littered with Multi Family Homes, Apartments just as much as it is SFH's and McMansions). Houston is fairly similar until you reach Conroe.
So it sounds like Atlanta is more dense in the core and Dallas and Houston more more dense outside.
The core is more important because the density is more consistent and more walkable density.
There is a trend in Atlanta where those suburban communities are adopting more walkable urban type development.
When you get out of these cores its not a huge difference in density to where its so different anyone would mistake them with cities like Philadelphia,Boston etc.
If you gonna talk about being urban,you have to talk about thew ays in which people are drawn to an urban area or at least what helps make an area more urban.
Atlanta gets way more tourist and visitors to the.That easy to see by the number of hotel rooms being among the highest in North America.
The Centennial Park District in Atlanta has no real competition within the entire South accept South Beach Miami and not even the French Quarter gets as many visitors.Lets not get into "yeh but are/are not those tourist" as its irrelevant if it creates bustling urban environment
I dont think you can ignore Atlanta growing influence in culture.Cities that tend to have strong cultural idenity usually has strong economic growth follow or work hand and hand. Out of all these three cities Atlanta by far outshines the other two. there is not one attraction in Houston or Dallas that can compete with the Georgia Aquarium or The Coca-Cola Museum or even Centennial Olympic Park itself. The crowds arounds those areas can get quite massive
So it sounds like Atlanta is more dense in the core and Dallas and Houston more more dense outside.
The core is more important because the density is more consistent and more walkable density.
There is a trend in Atlanta where those suburban communities are adopting more walkable urban type development.
When you get out of these cores its not a huge difference in density to where its so different anyone would mistake them with cities like Philadelphia,Boston etc.
Basically yes.
What helps Atlanta and hurts DFW is very similar to why Atlanta proper has a much higher average income than Dallas and Houston proper. The jobs are relocating to the core sections of Atlanta in much larger numbers than what is seen in DFW (which have multiple employment hotspots like Los Colinas, Frisco, Plano, West/North Lake and the cores of both Dallas and FortWorth are basically just another node rather than the -hub- so to speak). This is also probably a big reason DART is having a much harder time than MARTA rail is in attracting ridership as the spread of employment centers make it much more difficult to optimize transit around especially when competing against toll roads that can get you to most place in half the time.
Atlanta also has multiple job hubs but you'll notice that many of them can be connected by one transit line, The Red Line. From Hartsfield, Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Sandy Springs and its Linnear with Alpharetta if they ever finally expand it.
Now in the adverse, The greatest issues in Atlanta's suburban infrastructure may be the silver lining which aids to draw demand to live in urban centric environments.
To me it's like this.
For urban centric living, Atlanta wins hands down.
For suburban centric living, DFW and Houston are much better designed in this arena.
While all three are sunbelt cities, DFW and Houston are more designed like metros you see in SoCal and also the midwest (including even Chicago to a VERY mild extent in terms of suburban sprawl) where Atlanta is designed more like what is seen in the Northeast.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 01-21-2020 at 06:09 AM..
What helps Atlanta and hurts DFW is very similar to why Atlanta proper has a much higher average income than Dallas and Houston proper. The jobs are relocating to the core sections of Atlanta in much larger numbers than what is seen in DFW (which have multiple employment hotspots like Los Colinas, Frisco, Plano, West/North Lake and the cores of both Dallas and FortWorth are basically just another node rather than the -hub- so to speak). This is also probably a big reason DART is having a much harder time than MARTA rail is in attracting ridership as the spread of employment centers make it much more difficult to optimize transit around especially when competing against toll roads that can get you to most place in half the time.
Atlanta also has multiple job hubs but you'll notice that many of them can be connected by one transit line, The Red Line. From Hartsfield, Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Sandy Springs and its Linnear with Alpharetta if they ever finally expand it.
Now in the adverse, The greatest issues in Atlanta's suburban infrastructure may be the silver lining which aids to draw demand to live in urban centric environments.
To me it's like this.
For urban centric living, Atlanta wins hands down.
For suburban centric living, DFW and Houston are much better designed in this arena.
While all three are sunbelt cities, DFW and Houston are more designed like metros you see in SoCal and also the midwest (including even Chicago to a VERY mild extent in terms of suburban sprawl) where Atlanta is designed more like what is seen in the Northeast.
That and Atlanta city proper is a lot more educated than those two cities. 52% of of Atlanta's residents over the age of 25 has a bachelor's degree or higher compared to like 35-40% for Dallas and Houston or somewhere around there. Atlanta's educated population tends to coalesce around the core of the metro moreso than Dallas/Houston. This is also part of the reason why Atlanta is a more liberal city.
Someone was saying on a video I watched that one of the biggest differences between living in Houston and Atlanta is that strange, bizarre, or flamboyant characters are a lot more accepted and "normalized" so to speak in Atlanta than Houston. A gay man out in drag wouldn't get a ton of looks/stares in Atlanta like he would in Houston because we're so used to it. People judge more in Houston and I believe it. Houston is a conservative blue collar oil city and that tends to also permeate in it's zoning and built environment.
That and Atlanta city proper is a lot more educated than those two cities. 52% of of Atlanta's residents over the age of 25 has a bachelor's degree or higher compared to like 35-40% for Dallas and Houston or somewhere around there. Atlanta's educated population tends to coalesce around the core of the metro moreso than Dallas/Houston. This is also part of the reason why Atlanta is a more liberal city.
Someone was saying on a video I watched that one of the biggest differences between living in Houston and Atlanta is that strange, bizarre, or flamboyant characters are a lot more accepted and "normalized" so to speak in Atlanta than Houston. A gay man out in drag wouldn't get a ton of looks/stares in Atlanta like he would in Houston because we're so used to it. People judge more in Houston and I believe it. Houston is a conservative blue collar oil city and that tends to also permeate in it's zoning and built environment.
I havent dug deep into the LGBQT culture in Houston, and only slightly in Dallas. It seems they are fairly regular in Dallas, intown Dallas seems to be very blue but turns purple / red as you move into the suburbs. Not sure how it stacks up against Atlanta in this realm however. Houston shocked me in terms of how cosmopolitan it is however. It felt very international so to speak.
I wonder if it is harder to compare the cores of Dallas and Houston to Atlanta due to the scale of the rest of the actual city limits. All three cores are expanding, still smallish, but bigger than their other Sunbelt counterparts at least in the south. But the cores of Houston and Dallas will have a harder time as being seen as built up like Atlanta because people feel the rest of the city is still seen as more popular than the actual urban core areas. Atlanta by no means is DC or Philly as cores but the urban core takes up a big chunk of the actual city limits of Atlanta seeing as how it is only 133 sq miles. Los Angeles to a much smaller extent has a similar reputation when people compare its urban density and its urbanity to San Francisco, Chicago, etc even though LA can go toe to toe with those cities. But back to these three, Atlanta is the more educated city. But for the numbers mentioned earlier, that proves my point. I would think Houston and Dallas would have higher numbers if it was 150 sq miles instead of 627 sq miles and 385 sq miles respectively.
Also, Atlanta is the most liberal out of the three. The city of Dallas though should not be mistaken for being conservative. For Houston, I would say they are more libertarian and it shows in its development.
Last edited by Spade; 01-21-2020 at 10:56 AM..
Reason: I see that it was for city.
Someone was saying on a video I watched that one of the biggest differences between living in Houston and Atlanta is that strange, bizarre, or flamboyant characters are a lot more accepted and "normalized" so to speak in Atlanta than Houston. A gay man out in drag wouldn't get a ton of looks/stares in Atlanta like he would in Houston because we're so used to it. People judge more in Houston and I believe it. Houston is a conservative blue collar oil city and that tends to also permeate in it's zoning and built environment.
That's actually the biggest piece of BS I've seen on this thread yet. And that's saying a lot considering how bad the Dallas homer tried to compare Katy Trail to the Beltline.
I lived in both Atlanta and Houston so I can actually speak on this topic in detail and correct this lie. Houston is a major more INTERNATIONAL cosmopolitan city. The Inner Loop/SW Houston/West Houston and even parts east of Houston are overwhelmingly democratic to liberal. It's not till you get to the suburbs and unincorporated areas closer to the Beltway and 99 do you start to see more of a conservative vibe and even than it's a mix bag. Atlanta has a bigger LGBTQ community but Houston has a pretty sizable community as well. Atlanta is the city to busy to hate but Houston is so big,so spread out and so many people that it really is too busy to hate. As many LGBTQ people you see in The Galleria on a weekend nobody is judging or staring at them. LOL
Houston did have a openly Lesbian mayor and fully embraced that. Now if Houston was so judgmental and so conservative why would she be in office for 2 terms? Also most of the blue collar oil and gas employees tend to generally live outside the loop. Trust me I've been all over Atlanta metro, the tolerance level for LGBTQ people and other ethnic groups are a lot less low when you start driving further away from the perimeter.
Matter fact I live in a conservative suburb(The Woodlands) and btw their's LGBTQ people that live in this bland boring conservative suburb as well. There's even a popular gay bar right down the street from a mega church in The Woodlands. And a lot of conservatives purposely choose to live so far away from the city of Houston(Inner loop mostly) because they feel it's too liberal. Houston and Atlanta politics are not really that different in that category. Big difference is Black people have more political influence on the overall city in Atlanta whereas in Houston it's more across the board with different ethnic groups (Blacks/Mexicans/Asians) having political influence on the cities make up.
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