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Some assertions where made that were untrue.
Of the list undeniably if we are talking expanded core as in The Inner Loop, Inside the Perimeter, and Dallas's Loop 12. In order of density...
Houston
Dallas
ITP
Hell a similar sized area in San Antonio or Austin, Texas is probably denser than ITP and Dallas (San Antonio most likely, Austin is a stretch) like 100%. The area inside the perimeter is roughly 240 square miles and their isn't even a million people inside, most calculations put it shy of 800,000 i.e closer to 780,000 people. Houston is 96 with like 500,000 people inside the loop. Houston plus just the 50 miles to the west of it increases in density from 4,700 to 5,300 and has rouglhy 145 miles and 770,000 people making up the core western half, like 800,000 today with up to date numbers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#63a97631c070
Houston is one of the few cities that's gets denser when you move away from the 100 square mile core. I honestly don't know another city like it. Maybe some Paris burbs are slightly denser, but their well within the 100 mile core.
Density is not Urbanity though and central Atlanta meaning, not ITP but the much smaller area of Atlanta's original city limits+Decatur and a few other neighborhoods/smaller cities, maybe throw in Southern Buckhead as well as some outer areas to get to 100 square miles still wouldn't beat Houston today.
ATL original 38 square miles pre 1954 annexation, just might beat Houston just because the inner 40 square miles of the loop isn't significantly dense.
Where ATL really wins is Urbanity is at it's very core, Downtown area. Downtown Houston simply isn't urban it has 16,000 people living there but both Downtown (SA) and Downtown Austin could easily catch up to it on a population basis by throwing a few midrise apartments around (SA has more people but is twice the size and includes residential areas in the Southern half). https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#9c600791c070
The densest city in Georgia is Clarkston at 9,000 ppsm with barely a square mile.
Alief in Houston outside of the Beltway loop as in well outside ITP in Atlanta being 14 miles as the crow flies from DT Houston.
14 miles in ATL can land you in Sandy Springs/ Stone Mountain or 30083 area. Just to the east is 30021 where Clarkston is and it's at 7,000 ppsm roughly, 6,000 ppsm based on 2010 data. It's also the 3rd densest zip code in ATL over 10,000 people.
77083- Mission Bend/Western Alief- (18 miles away) 7,800 ppsm 80,000 people in 10 square miles
77099+77072- Alief--> 8,500 ppsm over 115,000 people in 14 square miles.
Cloverleaf- (12 miles away) 7,000 ppsm with 24,000 people.
Westwood
Gulfton
Sharpstown/Chinatown https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.7...0a7ccb!1m0!3e0
^^^^^^^^^
Hell this area of Houston highlighted probably averages 6,000-7,000 ppsm.
tl;dr
Atlanta is not denser than Houston by any measuring stick, but it is more urban. urbanity and density isn't the same thing, please stop using them interchangeably.
Atlanta appears to have more residents in the core
After a closer look it does appear that Atlanta has a larger population in it's cbd's than either Dallas or Houston. I can see that now. I still find it hard to believe that Buckhead has 80,000 peole ina .8 mile area. That would be like Midtown Manhattan numbers. WOW does Atlanta have a massive convention center.
Dows anyone have a good pic t show the combination of DTATL and Midtown?
Some assertions where made that were untrue.
Of the list undeniably if we are talking expanded core as in The Inner Loop, Inside the Perimeter, and Dallas's Loop 12. In order of density...
Houston
Dallas
ITP
Hell a similar sized area in San Antonio or Austin, Texas is probably denser than ITP and Dallas (San Antonio most likely, Austin is a stretch) like 100%. The area inside the perimeter is roughly 240 square miles and their isn't even a million people inside, most calculations put it shy of 800,000 i.e closer to 780,000 people. Houston is 96 with like 500,000 people inside the loop. Houston plus just the 50 miles to the west of it increases in density from 4,700 to 5,300 and has rouglhy 145 miles and 770,000 people making up the core western half, like 800,000 today with up to date numbers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#63a97631c070
Houston is one of the few cities that's gets denser when you move away from the 100 square mile core. I honestly don't know another city like it. Maybe some Paris burbs are slightly denser, but their well within the 100 mile core.
Density is not Urbanity though and central Atlanta meaning, not ITP but the much smaller area of Atlanta's original city limits+Decatur and a few other neighborhoods/smaller cities, maybe throw in Southern Buckhead as well as some outer areas to get to 100 square miles still wouldn't beat Houston today.
ATL original 38 square miles pre 1954 annexation, just might beat Houston just because the inner 40 square miles of the loop isn't significantly dense.
Where ATL really wins is Urbanity is at it's very core, Downtown area. Downtown Houston simply isn't urban it has 16,000 people living there but both Downtown (SA) and Downtown Austin could easily catch up to it on a population basis by throwing a few midrise apartments around (SA has more people but is twice the size and includes residential areas in the Southern half). https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#9c600791c070
The densest city in Georgia is Clarkston at 9,000 ppsm with barely a square mile.
Alief in Houston outside of the Beltway loop as in well outside ITP in Atlanta being 14 miles as the crow flies from DT Houston.
14 miles in ATL can land you in Sandy Springs/ Stone Mountain or 30083 area. Just to the east is 30021 where Clarkston is and it's at 7,000 ppsm roughly, 6,000 ppsm based on 2010 data. It's also the 3rd densest zip code in ATL over 10,000 people.
77083- Mission Bend/Western Alief- (18 miles away) 7,800 ppsm 80,000 people in 10 square miles
77099+77072- Alief--> 8,500 ppsm over 115,000 people in 14 square miles.
Cloverleaf- (12 miles away) 7,000 ppsm with 24,000 people.
Westwood
Gulfton
Sharpstown/Chinatown https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.7...0a7ccb!1m0!3e0
^^^^^^^^^
Hell this area of Houston highlighted probably averages 6,000-7,000 ppsm.
tl;dr
Atlanta is not denser than Houston by any measuring stick, but it is more urban. urbanity and density isn't the same thing, please stop using them interchangeably.
This is all well and good, but neither Dallas nor Houston have anything remotely similar to Buckhead in their core. We're talking multiple square miles of multi-acre estates. If you want to include all the density ITP, the southern reaches of Sandy Springs and western Brookhaven are similar.
It's s a very unique setup for a major Metro, and really dilutes our density numbers. BUT, where zoning allows it it's as dense as is allowed and where it needs to be.There's a hard line here between dense development and SFH neighborhoods. Intense development is allowed immediately adjacent to them, but the SFH neighborhoods are sacrosanct here. They are basically untouchable, and most of us like it this way. Some of the estate sections look like National Parks in the shadow of skyscrapers.
Some assertions where made that were untrue.
Of the list undeniably if we are talking expanded core as in The Inner Loop, Inside the Perimeter, and Dallas's Loop 12. In order of density...
Houston
Dallas
ITP
Hell a similar sized area in San Antonio or Austin, Texas is probably denser than ITP and Dallas (San Antonio most likely, Austin is a stretch) like 100%. The area inside the perimeter is roughly 240 square miles and their isn't even a million people inside, most calculations put it shy of 800,000 i.e closer to 780,000 people. Houston is 96 with like 500,000 people inside the loop. Houston plus just the 50 miles to the west of it increases in density from 4,700 to 5,300 and has rouglhy 145 miles and 770,000 people making up the core western half, like 800,000 today with up to date numbers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#63a97631c070
Houston is one of the few cities that's gets denser when you move away from the 100 square mile core. I honestly don't know another city like it. Maybe some Paris burbs are slightly denser, but their well within the 100 mile core.
Density is not Urbanity though and central Atlanta meaning, not ITP but the much smaller area of Atlanta's original city limits+Decatur and a few other neighborhoods/smaller cities, maybe throw in Southern Buckhead as well as some outer areas to get to 100 square miles still wouldn't beat Houston today.
ATL original 38 square miles pre 1954 annexation, just might beat Houston just because the inner 40 square miles of the loop isn't significantly dense.
Where ATL really wins is Urbanity is at it's very core, Downtown area. Downtown Houston simply isn't urban it has 16,000 people living there but both Downtown (SA) and Downtown Austin could easily catch up to it on a population basis by throwing a few midrise apartments around (SA has more people but is twice the size and includes residential areas in the Southern half). https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#9c600791c070
The densest city in Georgia is Clarkston at 9,000 ppsm with barely a square mile.
Alief in Houston outside of the Beltway loop as in well outside ITP in Atlanta being 14 miles as the crow flies from DT Houston.
14 miles in ATL can land you in Sandy Springs/ Stone Mountain or 30083 area. Just to the east is 30021 where Clarkston is and it's at 7,000 ppsm roughly, 6,000 ppsm based on 2010 data. It's also the 3rd densest zip code in ATL over 10,000 people.
77083- Mission Bend/Western Alief- (18 miles away) 7,800 ppsm 80,000 people in 10 square miles
77099+77072- Alief--> 8,500 ppsm over 115,000 people in 14 square miles.
Cloverleaf- (12 miles away) 7,000 ppsm with 24,000 people.
Westwood
Gulfton
Sharpstown/Chinatown https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.7...0a7ccb!1m0!3e0
^^^^^^^^^
Hell this area of Houston highlighted probably averages 6,000-7,000 ppsm.
tl;dr
Atlanta is not denser than Houston by any measuring stick, but it is more urban. urbanity and density isn't the same thing, please stop using them interchangeably.
This is all well and good, but neither Dallas nor Houston have anything remotely similar to Buckhead in their core. We're talking multiple square miles of multi-acre estates. If you want to include all the density ITP, the southern reaches of Sandy Springs and western Brookhaven are similar.
It's a very unique setup for a major Metro, and really dilutes our density numbers. BUT, where zoning allows it it's as dense as is allowed and where it needs to be.There's a hard line here between dense development and SFH neighborhoods. Intense development is allowed immediately adjacent to them, but the SFH neighborhoods are sacrosanct here. They are basically untouchable, and most of us like it this way. Some of the estate sections look like National Parks in the shadow of skyscrapers.
Thanks for clearing this up. Yes Houston is denser overall but Urbanity in the core goes to Atlanta. Where does Dallas fit into all this? Is Dallas more Urban or denser?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare
Some assertions where made that were untrue.
Of the list undeniably if we are talking expanded core as in The Inner Loop, Inside the Perimeter, and Dallas's Loop 12. In order of density...
Houston
Dallas
ITP
Hell a similar sized area in San Antonio or Austin, Texas is probably denser than ITP and Dallas (San Antonio most likely, Austin is a stretch) like 100%. The area inside the perimeter is roughly 240 square miles and their isn't even a million people inside, most calculations put it shy of 800,000 i.e closer to 780,000 people. Houston is 96 with like 500,000 people inside the loop. Houston plus just the 50 miles to the west of it increases in density from 4,700 to 5,300 and has rouglhy 145 miles and 770,000 people making up the core western half, like 800,000 today with up to date numbers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#63a97631c070
Houston is one of the few cities that's gets denser when you move away from the 100 square mile core. I honestly don't know another city like it. Maybe some Paris burbs are slightly denser, but their well within the 100 mile core.
Density is not Urbanity though and central Atlanta meaning, not ITP but the much smaller area of Atlanta's original city limits+Decatur and a few other neighborhoods/smaller cities, maybe throw in Southern Buckhead as well as some outer areas to get to 100 square miles still wouldn't beat Houston today.
ATL original 38 square miles pre 1954 annexation, just might beat Houston just because the inner 40 square miles of the loop isn't significantly dense.
Where ATL really wins is Urbanity is at it's very core, Downtown area. Downtown Houston simply isn't urban it has 16,000 people living there but both Downtown (SA) and Downtown Austin could easily catch up to it on a population basis by throwing a few midrise apartments around (SA has more people but is twice the size and includes residential areas in the Southern half). https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#9c600791c070
The densest city in Georgia is Clarkston at 9,000 ppsm with barely a square mile.
Alief in Houston outside of the Beltway loop as in well outside ITP in Atlanta being 14 miles as the crow flies from DT Houston.
14 miles in ATL can land you in Sandy Springs/ Stone Mountain or 30083 area. Just to the east is 30021 where Clarkston is and it's at 7,000 ppsm roughly, 6,000 ppsm based on 2010 data. It's also the 3rd densest zip code in ATL over 10,000 people.
77083- Mission Bend/Western Alief- (18 miles away) 7,800 ppsm 80,000 people in 10 square miles
77099+77072- Alief--> 8,500 ppsm over 115,000 people in 14 square miles.
Cloverleaf- (12 miles away) 7,000 ppsm with 24,000 people.
Westwood
Gulfton
Sharpstown/Chinatown https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.7...0a7ccb!1m0!3e0
^^^^^^^^^
Hell this area of Houston highlighted probably averages 6,000-7,000 ppsm.
tl;dr
Atlanta is not denser than Houston by any measuring stick, but it is more urban. urbanity and density isn't the same thing, please stop using them interchangeably.
I have never been to Buckhead but from looking at stats maybe Uptown Houston/River Oaks area may compare? River Oaks has a lot of multi acre estates? Im still looking into it. Are you talking about Tuxedo Park? That kind of reminds me of River Oaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl
This is all well and good, but neither Dallas nor Houston have anything remotely similar to Buckhead in their core. We're talking multiple square miles of multi-acre estates. If you want to include all the density ITP, the southern reaches of Sandy Springs and western Brookhaven are similar.
It's a very unique setup for a major Metro, and really dilutes our density numbers. BUT, where zoning allows it it's as dense as is allowed and where it needs to be.There's a hard line here between dense development and SFH neighborhoods. Intense development is allowed immediately adjacent to them, but the SFH neighborhoods are sacrosanct here. They are basically untouchable, and most of us like it this way. Some of the estate sections look like National Parks in the shadow of skyscrapers.
There's a census tract in Midtown that equates to 25,000 ppsm. I believe it's in the area bounded by Peachtree, 14th Street, Juniper and 10th Street. I may be off on the boundaries.
I just noticed that all 3 cities have the same developers putting up residential buildings. A lot of the newer residential buildings in Atlanta are the same as the ones here in Houston. I saw ALTA, Alexan, Hanover, Greystar, These are the same companies building in all 3 cities. All the projects look the same.
There is nothing unique anymore. All the new developments in all 3 cities are from the same companies and are identical.
It's like McDonalds they just keep building the same building in different cities now It looks kind of generic to me. That may not be anything to be proud of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl
This is all well and good, but neither Dallas nor Houston have anything remotely similar to Buckhead in their core. We're talking multiple square miles of multi-acre estates. If you want to include all the density ITP, the southern reaches of Sandy Springs and western Brookhaven are similar.
It's a very unique setup for a major Metro, and really dilutes our density numbers. BUT, where zoning allows it it's as dense as is allowed and where it needs to be.There's a hard line here between dense development and SFH neighborhoods. Intense development is allowed immediately adjacent to them, but the SFH neighborhoods are sacrosanct here. They are basically untouchable, and most of us like it this way. Some of the estate sections look like National Parks in the shadow of skyscrapers.
Last edited by jd433; 01-22-2020 at 10:20 PM..
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Atlanta appears to have more residents in the core
