Atlanta vs Houston vs Dallas, Which City will be more urban at the end of the decade? (live, largest)
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I have never been to Buckhead but from looking at stats maybe Uptown Houston/River Oaks area may compare? River Oaks has a lot of multi acre estates? Im still looking into it.
I don't think it's the same. Do people keep horses in those neighborhoods? You would swear you were in the mountains in certain sections. We're talking driveways with bridges over streams with little waterfalls and boulders, in the middle of old growth forests. If someone plopped you down blindfolded in these spots, you would have zero clue you were in the middle of a big city.
It's huge with families. The aquarium and other attractions around Centennial Park attract people with children. It's a weekend getaway sort of thing for people in the Eastern U.S. It's also a very popular destination for Black Americans which push up the tourist numbers as well.
I don't rank it up there with NYC, LA, Chicago, SF, SD, Miami, Orlando, Vegas, NOLA.
Thanks. Next time I travel on business I’m going to take a few personal days to explore the city. My company’s office is in Alpharetta. My lasting impression of Atlanta was how forested it is.
That is truly unique. I bet those houses cost a small fortune. I think the largest lots in River Oaks are 5 acres and there are only a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl
I don't think it's the same. Do people keep horses in those neighborhoods? You would swear you were in the mountains in certain sections. We're talking driveways with bridges over streams with little waterfalls and boulders, in the middle of old growth forests. If someone plopped you down blindfolded in these spots, you would have zero clue you were in the middle of a big city.
Some assertions where made that were untrue.
Of the list undeniably if we are talking expanded core as in The Inner Loop, Inside the Perimeter, and Dallas's Loop 12. In order of density...
Houston
Dallas
ITP
Hell a similar sized area in San Antonio or Austin, Texas is probably denser than ITP and Dallas (San Antonio most likely, Austin is a stretch) like 100%. The area inside the perimeter is roughly 240 square miles and their isn't even a million people inside, most calculations put it shy of 800,000 i.e closer to 780,000 people. Houston is 96 with like 500,000 people inside the loop. Houston plus just the 50 miles to the west of it increases in density from 4,700 to 5,300 and has rouglhy 145 miles and 770,000 people making up the core western half, like 800,000 today with up to date numbers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#63a97631c070
Houston is one of the few cities that's gets denser when you move away from the 100 square mile core. I honestly don't know another city like it. Maybe some Paris burbs are slightly denser, but their well within the 100 mile core.
Density is not Urbanity though and central Atlanta meaning, not ITP but the much smaller area of Atlanta's original city limits+Decatur and a few other neighborhoods/smaller cities, maybe throw in Southern Buckhead as well as some outer areas to get to 100 square miles still wouldn't beat Houston today.
ATL original 38 square miles pre 1954 annexation, just might beat Houston just because the inner 40 square miles of the loop isn't significantly dense.
Where ATL really wins is Urbanity is at it's very core, Downtown area. Downtown Houston simply isn't urban it has 16,000 people living there but both Downtown (SA) and Downtown Austin could easily catch up to it on a population basis by throwing a few midrise apartments around (SA has more people but is twice the size and includes residential areas in the Southern half). https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe.../#9c600791c070
The densest city in Georgia is Clarkston at 9,000 ppsm with barely a square mile.
Alief in Houston outside of the Beltway loop as in well outside ITP in Atlanta being 14 miles as the crow flies from DT Houston.
14 miles in ATL can land you in Sandy Springs/ Stone Mountain or 30083 area. Just to the east is 30021 where Clarkston is and it's at 7,000 ppsm roughly, 6,000 ppsm based on 2010 data. It's also the 3rd densest zip code in ATL over 10,000 people.
77083- Mission Bend/Western Alief- (18 miles away) 7,800 ppsm 80,000 people in 10 square miles
77099+77072- Alief--> 8,500 ppsm over 115,000 people in 14 square miles.
Cloverleaf- (12 miles away) 7,000 ppsm with 24,000 people.
Westwood
Gulfton
Sharpstown/Chinatown https://www.google.com/maps/dir/29.7...0a7ccb!1m0!3e0
^^^^^^^^^
Hell this area of Houston highlighted probably averages 6,000-7,000 ppsm.
tl;dr
Atlanta is not denser than Houston by any measuring stick, but it is more urban. urbanity and density isn't the same thing, please stop using them interchangeably.
Good post. Important to remember the distinction between urbanity and density. Atlanta wins hands down for urbanity, even with Houston and Dallas doing much better in this area. For density, Houston is denser. I liken it to the same distance Atlanta has with urbanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd433
I just noticed that all 3 cities have the same developers putting up residential buildings. A lot of the newer residential buildings in Atlanta are the same as the ones here in Houston. I saw ALTA, Alexan, Hanover, Greystar, These are the same companies building in all 3 cities. All the projects look the same.
There is nothing unique anymore. All the new developments in all 3 cities are from the same companies and are identical.
It's like McDonalds they just keep building the same building in different cities now It looks kind of generic to me. That may not be anything to be proud of.
We are at the point now where residential highrises are becoming like the mcmansion neighborhoods people hate from the suburbs where all houses are made of ticky tacky and all look just the same.
Midtown isnt as old as downtown but its greatest development boom was in the late 80's ,after the Olympics in the mid 90s to just before the recession and now ,so its really the same type of area but it does have some older properties in the mix as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
The several of the towers in Midtown have been conceived within the last 2-3 decades as well.
Uptown Dallas wasn’t created until the late 1990s. The area was pretty barren in terms of highrises or urban developments.
This is all well and good, but neither Dallas nor Houston have anything remotely similar to Buckhead in their core. We're talking multiple square miles of multi-acre estates. If you want to include all the density ITP, the southern reaches of Sandy Springs and western Brookhaven are similar.
It's a very unique setup for a major Metro, and really dilutes our density numbers. BUT, where zoning allows it it's as dense as is allowed and where it needs to be.There's a hard line here between dense development and SFH neighborhoods. Intense development is allowed immediately adjacent to them, but the SFH neighborhoods are sacrosanct here. They are basically untouchable, and most of us like it this way. Some of the estate sections look like National Parks in the shadow of skyscrapers.
Preston Hollow or Highland Park doesn’t compare?
We are at the point now where residential highrises are becoming like the mcmansion neighborhoods people hate from the suburbs where all houses are made of ticky tacky and all look just the same.
I'm afraid that Atlanta based Novare might be partially responsible for the highrise version of the copy and paste 20 something story glassy apartments, with their Skyhouse brand. We have three if them here, but at least their latest development Atlantic House is a step up in design and amenities.
Streetlights from Texas just entered the market, and have launched several highrise developments. One looks pretty cool at Midtown Union. The other is a tower adjacent to a beautiful historic church that was sent back to the drawing board by the Midtown Design Review Committee. The new design is a vast improvement.
Related from Miami is here now as well. I like both of their first towers in Midtown & Buckhead, and they're both in the upper 30 story range. The Midtown tower has a pretty controversial large abstract mural on the front (I like it), and is home to the recently opened largest Whole Foods in the SE. It's 4 levels, with a rooftop brew pub and herb garden.
The changes here since the end of the recession have frankly become borderline unbelievable. It's so strange compared to places like Dallas, that never really suffered like Atlanta did. They never really slowed down, we were devastated for several years.
Last edited by JMatl; 01-22-2020 at 11:22 PM..
Reason: Spelling
Lots of parallels with Midtown in a way. With the exception of the way ahead of it's time Colony Square development, Midtown can best be described as derelict in the not too distant past. They are very similar, in multiple ways.
JMatl is referring to the lot sizes in Buckhead. Neither Dallas or Houston have lot sizes that big over such large areas within their cores (610 Loop and Loop 12). Preston Hollow reminds me of northern Tanglewood in Houston.
JMatl is referring to the lot sizes in Buckhead. Neither Dallas or Houston have lot sizes that big over such large areas within their cores (610 Loop and Loop 12).
Gotcha. That makes sense...I prob need to stop scanning LOL
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No Houston and Dal have nothing like that
