Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Dallas and Dallas county have elected diversity as well. Atlanta suburban areas could improve on their conservative views on transit. Atlanta was slow to adopt non-smoking ordinances and the bars had to close early on the Lord’s day (not sure if that changed back or not). Atlanta has had racial issues with white candidates running for mayor. The Atlanta Eagle gay bar was raided for no reason, cops are setting up gays by tricking them into bringing poppers and busting them for prostitution and when is anyone going to do something about Stone Mountain?! Each area has areas to improve on, so you can’t just say Atlanta is more progressive.
This smacks of desperation, I see I hit a nerve. I don't have time to break all of this down now, but I will. I stand by my post, though. Atlanta is more progressive than Dallas.
This smacks of desperation, I see I hit a nerve. I don't have time to break all of this down now, but I will. I stand by my post, though. Atlanta is more progressive than Dallas.
No nerve hit. And no desperation (Eyeroll).
I’ll just reiterate that “Democrat” does not equate socially liberal and “Republican” doesn’t equate socially conservative. I think you all are underestimating the TX cities.
I think in the 90s and before Atlanta was clearly the most liberal, Dallas was less so but slightly more than Houston which had a more libertarian streak.
Now tho is just splitting hairs among the three
Dallas especially has made huge strides in the last few decades. But neither of the three is as liberal add the NE or Pacific NW major cities. Also the southern cities still have very conservative burbs.
Anyway, how is this tied to which wull be more urban?
Have we even discussed up coming projects that enhance the urban fabric of these cores?
I know Public transit in Atlanta has been discussed.
All three has done great job on parks and trails. Houston has gone from concrete and asphalt everywhere to miles and miles of bike rails and parks. The transformation of the interaction with the bayou has been dealt impressive. I heard they are connecting the east side of downtown with the west side of downtown with a new park and bike trail on the north end of downtown.
Outdoor activities in all three cities have been improving
I think in the 90s and before Atlanta was clearly the most liberal, Dallas was less so but slightly more than Houston which had a more libertarian streak.
Now tho is just splitting hairs among the three
Dallas especially has made huge strides in the last few decades. But neither of the three is as liberal add the NE or Pacific NW major cities. Also the southern cities still have very conservative burbs.
Anyway, how is this tied to which wull be more urban?
Have we even discussed up coming projects that enhance the urban fabric of these cores?
I know Public transit in Atlanta has been discussed.
All three has done great job on parks and trails. Houston has gone from concrete and asphalt everywhere to miles and miles of bike rails and parks. The transformation of the interaction with the bayou has been dealt impressive. I heard they are connecting the east side of downtown with the west side of downtown with a new park and bike trail on the north end of downtown.
Outdoor activities in all three cities have been improving
Yeah, I'm sure. Your rapid laundry list response says otherwise.
Quote:
I’ll just reiterate that “Democrat” does not equate socially liberal and “Republican” doesn’t equate socially conservative. I think you all are underestimating the TX cities.
Of course I'm aware of this, and I agree. This applies to everywhere in my opinion as well, not just Atlanta and Dallas.
Now for my attempt to answer your 'kitchen sink' of grievances.
Improving conservative suburban views on transit:
I can certainly say the same about Arlington, a city of nearly 400,000 with no public transit - the largest in the nation, and with the TRE running right through it.
That being said, Cobb & Gwinnett Counties have their own bus systems independent of MARTA, and each tie into the system. Gwinnett's most recent vote was last year, in a single-issue special election engineered by the State GOP to guarantee failure. Only 17% of registered voters cast a ballot, and it failed 54% to 45%. The areas around the Peachtree Industrial, I-85 and 316 corridors overwhelmingly voted yes, as well as the Snellville area of Southern Gwinnett. Thankfully, an updated proposal is on the ballot during the General this fall, and I expect for it to comfortably pass. Cobb hasn't voted on MARTA in decades, but that's about to change. A new State law allows portions of Counties to form special improvement districts allowing separate votes for areas like Cumberland/Galleria, which should pass in a landslide. They expect to vote within the next 2 years. Hopefully it will be fall of 2022, which will be a rematch of Stacy Abrams vs Brian Kemp and voter participation will be massive.
Smoking bans: The only places where smoking is allowed must not allow anyone 18 and under, which effectively eliminates most bars/restaurants. Smoking lounges at the Airport are gone, and many metro cities don't allow it in parks and within a certain distance from sidewalk dining.
Early bar closings on Sunday: I have no idea when the bars close, I don't go out late on work nights to begin with. I do know we voted on the 'Brunch Bill' in the mid-term 2018 election, and it passed by a landslide. It allows alcohol sales in stores and restaurants beginning at 11:30am. It is now legal in Atlanta and DeKalb to have alcohol delivered with your restaurant orders as well. Not sure about the burbs.
Eagle Raid: I agree, this was sickening. Blame the infamous Red Dog unit of the APD, which had basically become rogue by this point. They were also responsible for the death of a beloved elderly activist in her home due to the wrong address on a no-knock warrant based on false info from a shady informant. They gunned her down in her living room. The Eagle raid had wall to wall media coverage, and caused a huge public backlash. Six officers were fired, and the patrons caught up in it won a Federal Civil Rights suit. The verdict included mandatory training for all officers and restitution. I have a friend that was there, and his settlement was $175K. The ironic thing is that there was a successful LBGTQ liason officer already in place back then.
Issues with white candidates running for Mayor: Just, no. There is no issue with candidates, it's candidate as in one name - Mary Norwood. Atlanta City elections are non-partisan, but she is widely viewed as very conservative (and probably Republican), which just doesn't fly here. She can be pretty divisive at times, but I don't think she's racist - just too conservative and very NIMBY. She even proposed height limits adjacent to existing highrises to protect tenants and owners from new construction blocking their views! Blacks and whites have been voting for each other for decades within the City, nothing to see here.
Doing something about Stone Mountain: This is a State issue, not a City or Metro one. What exactly would you have us do? Blow up the world's largest exposed granite outcropping? Blast the sculpture off the face of the mountain? Neither will ever happen. I personally don’t believe in erasing all historic emblems of evil, whether they be Nazi in Germany or Confederate in the States. How are future generations able to understand things if they can't see tangible examples that they existed, and books just don't cut it. I think the best solution is an immersive interpretive center at the base of the mountain explaining the history and details. I also believe the words NEVER AGAIN should be carved into the bottom of the monument. I might add that the entire area around the park is now black (I'm not using AA here because there are many Caribbean and African immigrants as well). They mostly love the park, and use it heavily to run, hike, fish, enjoy the summer laser show, etc. I know many black folks over 30 that also don't wish to remove the carving, but I certainly can't speak for them.
One final observation. I realize that Dallas is progressive, and fairly liberal. I think the determining factor again is gay related. Dallas Pride is magnitudes smaller, attracting a respectable 45,000 to its parade in Fair Park last year. Atlanta Pride routinely has 300,000+ lining the streets of Midown. There's your difference...
Yeah, I'm sure. Your rapid laundry list response says otherwise.
Of course I'm aware of this, and I agree. This applies to everywhere in my opinion as well, not just Atlanta and Dallas.
Now for my attempt to answer your 'kitchen sink' of grievances.
Improving conservative suburban views on transit:
I can certainly say the same about Arlington, a city of nearly 400,000 with no public transit - the largest in the nation, and with the TRE running right through it.
That being said, Cobb & Gwinnett Counties have their own bus systems independent of MARTA, and each tie into the system. Gwinnett's most recent vote was last year, in a single-issue special election engineered by the State GOP to guarantee failure. Only 17% of registered voters cast a ballot, and it failed 54% to 45%. The areas around the Peachtree Industrial, I-85 and 316 corridors overwhelmingly voted yes, as well as the Snellville area of Southern Gwinnett. Thankfully, an updated proposal is on the ballot during the General this fall, and I expect for it to comfortably pass. Cobb hasn't voted on MARTA in decades, but that's about to change. A new State law allows portions of Counties to form special improvement districts allowing separate votes for areas like Cumberland/Galleria, which should pass in a landslide. They expect to vote within the next 2 years. Hopefully it will be fall of 2022, which will be a rematch of Stacy Abrams vs Brian Kemp and voter participation will be massive.
Smoking bans: The only places where smoking is allowed must not allow anyone 18 and under, which effectively eliminates most bars/restaurants. Smoking lounges at the Airport are gone, and many metro cities don't allow it in parks and within a certain distance from sidewalk dining.
Early bar closings on Sunday: I have no idea when the bars close, I don't go out late on work nights to begin with. I do know we voted on the 'Brunch Bill' in the mid-term 2018 election, and it passed by a landslide. It allows alcohol sales in stores and restaurants beginning at 11:30am. It is now legal in Atlanta and DeKalb to have alcohol delivered with your restaurant orders as well. Not sure about the burbs.
Eagle Raid: I agree, this was sickening. Blame the infamous Red Dog unit of the APD, which had basically become rogue by this point. They were also responsible for the death of a beloved elderly activist in her home due to the wrong address on a no-knock warrant based on false info from a shady informant. They gunned her down in her living room. The Eagle raid had wall to wall media coverage, and caused a huge public backlash. Six officers were fired, and the patrons caught up in it won a Federal Civil Rights suit. The verdict included mandatory training for all officers and restitution. I have a friend that was there, and his settlement was $175K. The ironic thing is that there was a successful LBGTQ liason officer already in place back then.
Issues with white candidates running for Mayor: Just, no. There is no issue with candidates, it's candidate as in one name - Mary Norwood. Atlanta City elections are non-partisan, but she is widely viewed as very conservative (and probably Republican), which just doesn't fly here. She can be pretty divisive at times, but I don't think she's racist - just too conservative and very NIMBY. She even proposed height limits adjacent to existing highrises to protect tenants and owners from new construction blocking their views! Blacks and whites have been voting for each other for decades within the City, nothing to see here.
Doing something about Stone Mountain: This is a State issue, not a City or Metro one. What exactly would you have us do? Blow up the world's largest exposed granite outcropping? Blast the sculpture off the face of the mountain? Neither will ever happen. I personally don’t believe in erasing all historic emblems of evil, whether they be Nazi in Germany or Confederate in the States. How are future generations able to understand things if they can't see tangible examples that they existed, and books just don't cut it. I think the best solution is an immersive interpretive center at the base of the mountain explaining the history and details. I also believe the words NEVER AGAIN should be carved into the bottom of the monument. I might add that the entire area around the park is now black (I'm not using AA here because there are many Caribbean and African immigrants as well). They mostly love the park, and use it heavily to run, hike, fish, enjoy the summer laser show, etc. I know many black folks over 30 that also don't wish to remove the carving, but I certainly can't speak for them.
One final observation. I realize that Dallas is progressive, and fairly liberal. I think the determining factor again is gay related. Dallas Pride is magnitudes smaller, attracting a respectable 45,000 to its parade in Fair Park last year. Atlanta Pride routinely has 300,000+ lining the streets of Midown. There's your difference...
Arlington not having public transit is unfortunate, but the County its in does have two rail lines and bus service. Denton and Collin Counties have bus and rail as well.
As for Mary Norwood, I know for a fact that there were “Atlanta can’t afford to have a white mayor” campaigns were out against her. I heard the radio spots and had a flyer put on my car when i lived there in 2009.
Yes, blast the confederate soldiers off of Stone Mountain! Absolutely.
The comparison of Pride parades is not a good indicator. Atlanta puts on a much better event than here and is a regional hub vs Dallas which is not the regional hub for this part of the country. Houston puts on a much better Pride than we do as well even though Dallas has a larger gay population, larger nightlife scene, two gay districts and more visibility in the city. Unfortunately, the planners of Dallas’ Pride do an awful job by moving the location, changing the dates, failing to get proper sponsorships and entertainment and so on. At one point Dallas had more than one Pride festival. There is a lot of frustration with the Pride here. Atlanta’s Pride also serves as a regional celebration as it’s the largest scene between DC and Miami. Columbus, OH has the largest Pride parade in the Midwest, but that doesn’t make Columbus better than Chicago (or even Atlanta).
The “laundry list” was not me being petty, but showing that Atlanta is not some liberal Mecca when compared to Dallas. You can’t say “Cobb County is more liberal than Dallas burbs” as Fulton County, Cobb County, Dekalb County and Clayton County would be part of Dallas County here (population wise). Dallas has really changed a lot and cannot be tied to its previous conservative reputation from decades past. At this point, it’s really not much different than Austin in the Central city.
I just feel like some people hang on to an outdated view of Dallas and even DFW. Tarrant and Collin County are becoming more progressive and places like Plano have high HRC LGBTQ index scores. It’s a large and diverse area that’s hard to sum up.
Arlington not having public transit is unfortunate, but the County its in does have two rail lines and bus service. Denton and Collin Counties have bus and rail as well.
As for Mary Norwood, I know for a fact that there were “Atlanta can’t afford to have a white mayor” campaigns were out against her. I heard the radio spots and had a flyer put on my car when i lived there in 2009.
Yes, blast the confederate soldiers off of Stone Mountain! Absolutely.
The comparison of Pride parades is not a good indicator. Atlanta puts on a much better event than here and is a regional hub vs Dallas which is not the regional hub for this part of the country. Houston puts on a much better Pride than we do as well even though Dallas has a larger gay population, larger nightlife scene, two gay districts and more visibility in the city. Unfortunately, the planners of Dallas’ Pride do an awful job by moving the location, changing the dates, failing to get proper sponsorships and entertainment and so on. At one point Dallas had more than one Pride festival. There is a lot of frustration with the Pride here. Atlanta’s Pride also serves as a regional celebration as it’s the largest scene between DC and Miami. Columbus, OH has the largest Pride parade in the Midwest, but that doesn’t make Columbus better than Chicago (or even Atlanta).
The “laundry list” was not me being petty, but showing that Atlanta is not some liberal Mecca when compared to Dallas. You can’t say “Cobb County is more liberal than Dallas burbs” as Fulton County, Cobb County, Dekalb County and Clayton County would be part of Dallas County here (population wise). Dallas has really changed a lot and cannot be tied to its previous conservative reputation from decades past. At this point, it’s really not much different than Austin in the Central city.
I just feel like some people hang on to an outdated view of Dallas and even DFW. Tarrant and Collin County are becoming more progressive and places like Plano have high HRC LGBTQ index scores. It’s a large and diverse area that’s hard to sum up.
I never claimed Atlanta was a liberal mecca, but whatever. You are as unyielding as ever it seems. I still am convinced that it's more liberal than Dallas, though.
As far as Stone Mountain goes, good luck with what you propose.
Arlington not having public transit is unfortunate, but the County its in does have two rail lines and bus service. Denton and Collin Counties have bus and rail as well.
As for Mary Norwood, I know for a fact that there were “Atlanta can’t afford to have a white mayor” campaigns were out against her. I heard the radio spots and had a flyer put on my car when i lived there in 2009.
Yes, blast the confederate soldiers off of Stone Mountain! Absolutely.
The comparison of Pride parades is not a good indicator as Dallas has a larger gay population, larger nightlife scene, two gay districts and more visibility in the city. Unfortunately, the planners of Dallas’ Pride do an awful job by moving the location, changing the dates, failing to get proper sponsorships and entertainment and so on. At one point Dallas had more than one Pride festival. There is a lot of frustration with the Pride here. Atlanta’s Pride also serves as a regional celebration as it’s the largest scene between DC and Miami. Columbus, OH has the largest Pride parade in the Midwest, but that doesn’t make Columbus better than Chicago (or even Atlanta).
The “laundry list” was not me being petty, but showing that Atlanta is not some liberal Mecca when compared to Dallas. You can’t say “Cobb County is more liberal than Dallas burbs” as Fulton County, Cobb County, Dekalb County and Clayton County would be part of Dallas County here (population wise). Dallas has really changed a lot and cannot be tied to its previous conservative reputation from decades past. At this point, it’s really not much different than Austin in the Central city.
I just feel like some people hang on to an outdated view of Dallas and even DFW. Tarrant and Collin County are becoming more progressive and places like Plano have high HRC LGBTQ index scores. It’s a large and diverse area that’s hard to sum up.
Dallas has a larger gay population because Dallas has more people than Atlanta period. Atlanta has a higher percentage than Dallas though. Has the 3rd highest LGBQT population percentage wise in America. A higher percentage means the gay community is actually more visible. I don't see how you can say it isn't visible. Atlanta definitely has the most visible gay black community in America as well.
But Atlanta has been called the gay capital of the south. Its been highly ranked as one of the best cities for LGBT on several list over a decade now. I don't see the point in saying Dallas is more visible in the city when that's a lie but ok.
I agree people do continue to hang on to outdated views of Dallas and DFW as a whole but DFW burbs still have a higher cluster of conservative burbs than Atlanta metro does. While Plano is changing for the better it still leans conservative. Even Plano's Haitian mayor has received racist rhetoric from Plano residents for his Plano Tomorrow. It's a still a significant amount of resident and city councilmen who will not accept change. I just didn't see that kind of pushback from Atlanta's most influential northern burbs.
And also according to a 2014 study the American Political Science Review listed Atlanta as the 22nd most liberal city in America. Fort Worth on the other hand is completely neutral. And just coming from Ft.Worth I definitely get the neutral vibe. Dallas is listed 35th on the list.
Dallas has a larger gay population because Dallas has more people than Atlanta period. Atlanta has a higher percentage than Dallas though. Has the 3rd highest LGBQT population percentage wise in America. A higher percentage means the gay community is actually more visible. I don't see how you can say it isn't visible. Atlanta definitely has the most visible gay black community in America as well.
But Atlanta has been called the gay capital of the south. Its been highly ranked as one of the best cities for LGBT on several list over a decade now. I don't see the point in saying Dallas is more visible in the city when that's a lie but ok.
I agree people do continue to hang on to outdated views of Dallas and DFW as a whole but DFW burbs still have a higher cluster of conservative burbs than Atlanta metro does. While Plano is changing for the better it still leans conservative. Even Plano's Haitian mayor has received racist rhetoric from Plano residents for his Plano Tomorrow. It's a still a significant amount of resident and city councilmen who will not accept change. I just didn't see that kind of pushback from Atlanta's most influential northern burbs.
And also according to a 2014 study the American Political Science Review listed Atlanta as the 22nd most liberal city in America. Fort Worth on the other hand is completely neutral. And just coming from Ft.Worth I definitely get the neutral vibe. Dallas is listed 35th on the list.
The Dallas gay scene is more visible... Have you seen Oak Lawn vs Midtown? Oak Lawn is better compared to WeHo than Atlanta's gay scene. And we also have Bishop Arts which has the second largest concentration of gay businesses in the city. I won't disagree about the gay black culture in Atlanta as their demographics are different than most of cities in that regard, but there is a much bigger issue with the DL culture there (which is a conservative point of view).
The city of Atlanta will definitely rank higher than the city of Dallas in terms of being more liberal as the city limits are much smaller and doesn't include as much development outside of the central city. My point is, I don't think you'll feel like one is more liberal than the other if you're just hanging out in the Central city of either place.
As for Plano, the issue there is a culture shift. There's not really any burb in Atlanta the size of Plano and dealing with the type of growth that Plano is dealing with. There's definitely an old meets new culture war going on there, but I do think Plano is heading in the right direction. That was just an example I gave though. We also have burbs with liberal cores like Denton and such. So it's not a sea of red in the burbs.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
