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The part in bold I have heard before and I have to say that has not been my experience after being in both recently. My observations were that there are many gems around Downtown Dallas such as Bishop Arts, Uptown, Deep Ellum, but I found them to be tiny and not as connected as made out to be.
Houston's seemed to go out further and I was amazed by how they were coming together.
I think Dallas was earlier in the game than Houston. Those neighborhoods were already on the up and up 20 years ago while Midtown Houston was a no man's land, Montrose was still getting it's act together, Washington Ave and Kirby were hostile environments and Eado was behind the back and forgotten.
All that is different now though.
Midtown still has a long way to go but it is now a fully functioning neighborhood with lots of bars, and two new/ expanded grocery stores.
Eado is now integrated with downtown and rapidly changing.
The museum district has melted into midtown to the north, Montrose to the East and Rice Village just south of there.
Then there's all the new developments adjacent in Rice Village.
North of that is River Oaks which takes you back to Montrose, 4th ward and West Ave/ Rice Millitary. Then there's the huge Heights area filled with all these new bike trails, parks grocery stores and shops.
The only thing missing is threading all of these with rail.
Idk, counting these neighborhoods on walkscore and actually seeing them were completely different.
I don't think walkscore paints an accurate picture at all. The urban form in Houston dwarfs that of Dallas and all of them are on steroids.
Urban quality is different though. Housing has that urban form on lock down but I think the quality is better in Dallas. Maybe that's because these close in neighborhoods started their rebirth earlier and they have much smaller areas to improve on, either way they felt better, but I totally disagree on Dallas having more.
It's going to take a while for it all to bake, but Houston has been getting rid of a ton of their garden style apartments and replacing them with monstrous, but more integrated multifamily midrises and high rises.
Dallas have been too, but the areas in Houston are larger, which is why I think Dallas has better quality but definitely not more area. The entire Western chunk of the 610 loop is urbanizing, while in Dallas a large chunk to the best is unuseable flood plain and the urbanization really didn't go that far east or west.
The west side of downtown Houston looks like a futuristic Asian neighborhood where towers dot the landscape like sequoias. A few miles out in the corresponding areas in Dallas the neighborhoods are more orderly and more along the lines of areas in Houston like Afton Oaks or garden Oaks which are like 5-8 miles out.
You disagree? The west side is pocked with tall buildings all over. It's so weird and futurist looking.
It is definitely not orderly like the neighborhoods west of downtown Dallas.
Saying that GA is more progressive than TX can be a tricky observation due to the amount of socially conservative Christian Democrats that make up a large portion of the party in Georgia. It’s a lot more prominent on a per capita basis.
This is silly. Yes some Democrats are conservative like when it comes to things like gay rights but when it comes to women rights or rights of minorities ,Georgia is noticeably better than TX. Neither state is a progressive bastion but there is a level in which Georgia is noticeably better at it than TX.
If you consider that GA has a higher black population that votes Democratic consistently than TX more splintered Hispanic population which can be more conservative due to the high Catholic and Evangelical population where abortion and gay rights are not a higher priority.
Actually the black population makes a huge difference. South Georgia has counties that voted 75% (Hancock Co) Democratic in 2018. Counties that were rural and not in an urban MSA in which even those urban areas outside Atlanta in cities like Columbus,Athens,Savannah,Augusta,Albany,and Macon all voted Blue.
Here is a map of both states with each county percentage for the last 2018 Senate elections. Its clear that Georgia has more counties outside of major urban areas with very high Democratic votes in rural counties.
The counties I see for TX appear to be in all the Urban areas and are not nearly as hoh percentage across teh board.
Atlanta started electing gay candidates in the City in 2000, the same year the first suburban gay State House rep was elected. She still holds that seat. In 2001 Atlanta elected the 1st gay City Council President of a large city in the South. There are now 5 gay reps serving in the State House. From what I am finding online, Texas has 2. Considering the huge difference in population, this says Metro Atlanta and Georgia are more progressive.
Atlanta also had a black mayor before any of the large TX cites. It was in the mid 1990s the City of Atlanta had a domestic partnership policy in place. Way before any city in TX.
Tough to say overall. As a Californian from the SF Bay Area, I don't think any of these cities overly impress me with their urbanity. However, if I were to rank the three, I'd go with the following:
1. Atlanta
2. Dallas
3. Houston
Atlanta seems to have the most interesting urban core, which extends further, once you factor in downtown, Midtown and Buckhead/Sandy Springs. It is the only of the cities that has a heavy rail system and the hilly topography gives the impression that its less sprawly (even if that's not entirely accurate).
I've been impressed with Dallas as of late. It seems to be building up the urban core not just in the Dallas and Fort Worth area, but in Plano as well. Still, there's TONS of sprawl here so when you get out of this, you're in bland suburbia.
Houston has probably the most impressive downtown skyline and it does have some cool artsy neighborhoods near downtown. Still, it also has a ton of sprawl. The suburbs are a bit prettier than Dallas due to the forested landscape, but otherwise, didn't seem very interesting to me.
Dallas and Dallas county have elected diversity as well. Atlanta suburban areas could improve on their conservative views on transit. Atlanta was slow to adopt non-smoking ordinances and the bars had to close early on the Lord’s day (not sure if that changed back or not). Atlanta has had racial issues with white candidates running for mayor. The Atlanta Eagle gay bar was raided for no reason, cops are setting up gays by tricking them into bringing poppers and busting them for prostitution and when is anyone going to do something about Stone Mountain?! Each area has areas to improve on, so you can’t just say Atlanta is more progressive.
You are really trying hard but looking very silly doing so.
Clubs closing early on Sunday had absolutely nothing to do with religion. Itb was after 2000 they did this because late night out of control increase in crime partying in Buckhead mainly angered the wealthy elites and they pressured the mayor to close early on weekends and Sunday being the day before the work week was apart of the revised early closings.
A bar being raided is no where near worse as black man being killed in his own home by a white police officer who said she thought it was her apartment.
Stone Mountain is a place as many blacks and people of all races go and there is a committee studying how to put the carving in proper context as we speak. Georgia is not NY and like TX ,it will take some tome nbut change is coming very soon i can promise you that.
Yeah, I'm sure. Your rapid laundry list response says otherwise.
Of course I'm aware of this, and I agree. This applies to everywhere in my opinion as well, not just Atlanta and Dallas.
Now for my attempt to answer your 'kitchen sink' of grievances.
Improving conservative suburban views on transit:
I can certainly say the same about Arlington, a city of nearly 400,000 with no public transit - the largest in the nation, and with the TRE running right through it.
That being said, Cobb & Gwinnett Counties have their own bus systems independent of MARTA, and each tie into the system. Gwinnett's most recent vote was last year, in a single-issue special election engineered by the State GOP to guarantee failure. Only 17% of registered voters cast a ballot, and it failed 54% to 45%. The areas around the Peachtree Industrial, I-85 and 316 corridors overwhelmingly voted yes, as well as the Snellville area of Southern Gwinnett. Thankfully, an updated proposal is on the ballot during the General this fall, and I expect for it to comfortably pass. Cobb hasn't voted on MARTA in decades, but that's about to change. A new State law allows portions of Counties to form special improvement districts allowing separate votes for areas like Cumberland/Galleria, which should pass in a landslide. They expect to vote within the next 2 years. Hopefully it will be fall of 2022, which will be a rematch of Stacy Abrams vs Brian Kemp and voter participation will be massive.
Smoking bans: The only places where smoking is allowed must not allow anyone 18 and under, which effectively eliminates most bars/restaurants. Smoking lounges at the Airport are gone, and many metro cities don't allow it in parks and within a certain distance from sidewalk dining.
Early bar closings on Sunday: I have no idea when the bars close, I don't go out late on work nights to begin with. I do know we voted on the 'Brunch Bill' in the mid-term 2018 election, and it passed by a landslide. It allows alcohol sales in stores and restaurants beginning at 11:30am. It is now legal in Atlanta and DeKalb to have alcohol delivered with your restaurant orders as well. Not sure about the burbs.
Eagle Raid: I agree, this was sickening. Blame the infamous Red Dog unit of the APD, which had basically become rogue by this point. They were also responsible for the death of a beloved elderly activist in her home due to the wrong address on a no-knock warrant based on false info from a shady informant. They gunned her down in her living room. The Eagle raid had wall to wall media coverage, and caused a huge public backlash. Six officers were fired, and the patrons caught up in it won a Federal Civil Rights suit. The verdict included mandatory training for all officers and restitution. I have a friend that was there, and his settlement was $175K. The ironic thing is that there was a successful LBGTQ liason officer already in place back then.
Issues with white candidates running for Mayor: Just, no. There is no issue with candidates, it's candidate as in one name - Mary Norwood. Atlanta City elections are non-partisan, but she is widely viewed as very conservative (and probably Republican), which just doesn't fly here. She can be pretty divisive at times, but I don't think she's racist - just too conservative and very NIMBY. She even proposed height limits adjacent to existing highrises to protect tenants and owners from new construction blocking their views! Blacks and whites have been voting for each other for decades within the City, nothing to see here.
Doing something about Stone Mountain: This is a State issue, not a City or Metro one. What exactly would you have us do? Blow up the world's largest exposed granite outcropping? Blast the sculpture off the face of the mountain? Neither will ever happen. I personally don’t believe in erasing all historic emblems of evil, whether they be Nazi in Germany or Confederate in the States. How are future generations able to understand things if they can't see tangible examples that they existed, and books just don't cut it. I think the best solution is an immersive interpretive center at the base of the mountain explaining the history and details. I also believe the words NEVER AGAIN should be carved into the bottom of the monument. I might add that the entire area around the park is now black (I'm not using AA here because there are many Caribbean and African immigrants as well). They mostly love the park, and use it heavily to run, hike, fish, enjoy the summer laser show, etc. I know many black folks over 30 that also don't wish to remove the carving, but I certainly can't speak for them.
One final observation. I realize that Dallas is progressive, and fairly liberal. I think the determining factor again is gay related. Dallas Pride is magnitudes smaller, attracting a respectable 45,000 to its parade in Fair Park last year. Atlanta Pride routinely has 300,000+ lining the streets of Midown. There's your difference...
The problem here is that you're trying to depict Black people as some ultra-conservative, backwoods constituency in order to discredit Atlanta here when they are actually a huge reason why the city is as liberal as it is, but you seem to not be able to get that. You say you mentioned DL culture to prove that Atlanta isn't "some big open and accepting city for all" compared to Dallas, but that doesn't even logically follow since Atlanta has had one of the largest, most established Black LGBT populations in the country for decades now--and the city's first Black mayor, as well as subsequent Black mayors, have publicly embraced that population and actively courted their votes. Many within the city's civil rights establishment has also been vocal in their support over the years.
The fact of the matter is that it was entirely possible for you to make your point about Dallas being just as liberal as Atlanta without using Black folks as punching bags. Not only is it inaccurate, but it just looks tacky and desperate on your part.
VERY GOOD POST!!
Needed to be said because many non blacks just dont understand that its not so easy to label.
Arlington not having public transit is unfortunate, but the County its in does have two rail lines and bus service. Denton and Collin Counties have bus and rail as well.
As for Mary Norwood, I know for a fact that there were “Atlanta can’t afford to have a white mayor” campaigns were out against her. I heard the radio spots and had a flyer put on my car when i lived there in 2009.
Yes, blast the confederate soldiers off of Stone Mountain! Absolutely.
The comparison of Pride parades is not a good indicator. Atlanta puts on a much better event than here and is a regional hub vs Dallas which is not the regional hub for this part of the country. Houston puts on a much better Pride than we do as well even though Dallas has a larger gay population, larger nightlife scene, two gay districts and more visibility in the city. Unfortunately, the planners of Dallas’ Pride do an awful job by moving the location, changing the dates, failing to get proper sponsorships and entertainment and so on. At one point Dallas had more than one Pride festival. There is a lot of frustration with the Pride here. Atlanta’s Pride also serves as a regional celebration as it’s the largest scene between DC and Miami. Columbus, OH has the largest Pride parade in the Midwest, but that doesn’t make Columbus better than Chicago (or even Atlanta).
The “laundry list” was not me being petty, but showing that Atlanta is not some liberal Mecca when compared to Dallas. You can’t say “Cobb County is more liberal than Dallas burbs” as Fulton County, Cobb County, Dekalb County and Clayton County would be part of Dallas County here (population wise). Dallas has really changed a lot and cannot be tied to its previous conservative reputation from decades past. At this point, it’s really not much different than Austin in the Central city.
I just feel like some people hang on to an outdated view of Dallas and even DFW. Tarrant and Collin County are becoming more progressive and places like Plano have high HRC LGBTQ index scores. It’s a large and diverse area that’s hard to sum up.
So you basically said "YES,Atlanta is more gay friendly and here is why.......lol"
It doesnt matter how and why as it just is. This is why you can cant see how hypocritical your responses are. You have a huge bitter attitude against Atlanta since the day you left and now you think sayong the same things you have always said in a less direct and offensive way someone makes people not see that you havent change other than your delivery.
So you basically said "YES,Atlanta is more gay friendly and here is why.......lol"
It doesnt matter how and why as it just is. This is why you can cant see how hypocritical your responses are. You have a huge bitter attitude against Atlanta since the day you left and now you think sayong the same things you have always said in a less direct and offensive way someone makes people not see that you havent change other than your delivery.
I don’t see where in that post I said it was more gay friendly. (Looking around)...
I don’t think it’s less gay friendly either, both cities are pretty much in the same league in that regard.
As for the attack on my character...I’m entitled to my opinion. I don’t hate Atlanta, but I don’t think it’s as great as some posters make it out to be. They are entitled to their opinions as well.
Anyway, no sense it stirring things back up. I’ve moved on from it. And Go Cowboys!
Last edited by R1070; 09-20-2020 at 03:22 PM..
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