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But despite the NIMBYism and refusal of chains and box stores and just general commercial activity in a lot of 95/495 suburbs, I think Boston has the amount of amenities and luxuries that you'd expect from an MSA of it's size.
More than Seattle, less than Chicago.
Seattle is a significantly smaller MSA than Boston. IMO Boston seriously lacks the practical amenities you'd expect from an MSA its size. Only the solidly urbanized areas pull their weight. And a few of the less glitzy burbs immediately south (not the 'south shore')
Some of these remind me, a lot, of Chicago suburbs. Not all, but some.
Winchester, Wellesley, Belmont, and the residential portions of Newton and Brookline, in particular, are not at all dissimilar to the upper crust of Chicagoland. Pervasive use of brick, well manicured main streets, etc.
Winchester would be most like Hinsdale/Clarendon Hills.
Wellesley would be most like Winnetka/Lake Forest, but without the waterfront.
Belmont would be most like Wilmette, but without the waterfront.
Newton/Brookline would be most comparable to Oak Park/Evanston.
When you start "stepping down" in both, Andover is probably most comparable to Deerfield/Libertyville. Arlington would be Park Ridge. Needham would be Western Springs. Melrose would be La Grange. Reading would be Mount Prospect. Natick would be Northbrook. But these get harder to translate, as this is where they become so different.
Of course, IL won't have any comps to Hingham, Rockport, Marblehead, Newburyport, Cohasset, Beverly Farms, etc. Those are uniquely coastal, uniquely nautical, uniquely old.
On the flip side, Boston doesn't have the same number dense, urban suburban villages/cities that still operate as family oriented and well maintained places to live. So you won't find an Elmhurst, or an Arlington Heights, or a Palatine.
Seattle is a significantly smaller MSA than Boston. IMO Boston seriously lacks the practical amenities you'd expect from an MSA its size. Only the solidly urbanized areas pull their weight. And a few of the less glitzy burbs immediately south (not the 'south shore')
I'm more than willing to hear you out- What amenities is Boston lacking that another comparable metro absolutely has? Say Detroit and Atlanta, though the delta between ATL and Boston is as significant as the delta between Seattle and Boston.
Well, if this were baseball, Newton is batting .750 for walkable vs. unwalkable areas to live.
I'd draft Newton over 95% of other Boston suburbs, based on this criteria.
Massachusetts uses zoning to keep out the high density housing and that has also limited a lot of Main Street retail and restaurant development. There aren’t many places where you could get by without a car.
I'm more than willing to hear you out- What amenities is Boston lacking that another comparable metro absolutely has? Say Detroit and Atlanta, though the delta between ATL and Boston is as significant as the delta between Seattle and Boston.
Genuinely curious.
Far less retail space, extremely early closing times for all businesses, unreliable and infrequent commuter rail (compared to metra or metro north or NJ transit), fewer town with sidewalks and sewage systems, lack of apartment complexes offering affordable housing, lacking recreation centers or they're pay for membership type clubs, lack of dining options nin the burbs.
Too many nearly rural left towns out west, underpopulated low density tows northwest and far north and too many 'honky tonk' trashy loking stips to the south full of used car dealerships,piles of lumber and low wend retail.
With few exceptions the dramatic lack of redidnetial density in the Boston MSA kills the dynamism and vitality and sort of pressure everyone into a tiny sliver of the metro north of mass pike/mass ave and inside 128.
Towns like Framingham, Natick, Salem, Dedham, Stoughton, Quincy, Brookline should be more the norm rather than the exception to the rule. I understand aesthetic but we could really use more places like Rte. 9 or Providence Highway in the area. That offer trivial family oriented things like Plaster Fun Time, Legacy PLace, Laser Tag, Chuck E Cheese etc. These type of things should go out further and be more consistent. The nimbysm dulls the region tremendously ad make s it prohibitive to small businesses, smaller chains and regional chains to get a foothold.
They've held a single Popeyes in Dorchester hostage for 3+ years. Its fully built out but the community wont allow it to open because its unhealthy (not realizing no one else wants to build a restaurant and open in a poor part of Boston and wait 3 years and theres a subsidized grocery store offering literally only healthy food 500f etet down the street) in Hyde Park they've suspended the opening of a single burger king until they meet with more neighbors and have rejected its 2 am closing time. So in both lower income locations they're left with vacant buildings -one in gangland (Codman Square Dorchester) and one sitting in front of the ruins of an abandoned Paper Factory (Hyde Park)- for the foreseeable future. THat doesn attract more businesses, it scares them. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local..._square/94851/ https://www.universalhub.com/2020/bu...k-closing-time https://www.universalhub.com/2020/do...r-place-course
Some people call Boston "The City that Always Sleeps"
In the absolute middle of Downtown Boston a Tasty Burger is opening but the new residents of Downtown crossing dont want people getting burgers in this insanely urban neighborhood at 2 am. Most of them live like 30 stories in the air in buildings less than 10 years old. The Tasty burger was also denied a license to sell beer and wine. In the heart of downtown boston its ungodly for people to grab a burger at 1 am.
Massachusetts uses zoning to keep out the high density housing and that has also limited a lot of Main Street retail and restaurant development. There aren’t many places where you could get by without a car.
This right here.
It keeps Boston poorer than it should be because it literally cant displace poor residents into suburbs if it wanted to.. and all the gateway cities are full to capacity-run down but no vacant proerties and few residential vacancies in general, just tons of empty store fronts. Areas become expensive but don't gentrify like in a Brooklynesque way because interesting businesses generally can't afford the legal money and the tie to open in low income Boston neighborhoods. So housing becomes expensive without improvement in amenities.
Far less retail space, extremely early closing times for all businesses, unreliable and infrequent commuter rail (compared to metra or metro north or NJ transit), fewer town with sidewalks and sewage systems, lack of apartment complexes offering affordable housing, lacking recreation centers or they're pay for membership type clubs, lack of dining options nin the burbs.
Too many nearly rural left towns out west, underpopulated low density tows northwest and far north and too many 'honky tonk' trashy loking stips to the south full of used car dealerships,piles of lumber and low wend retail.
With few exceptions the dramatic lack of redidnetial density in the Boston MSA kills the dynamism and vitality and sort of pressure everyone into a tiny sliver of the metro north of mass pike/mass ave and inside 128.
Literally none of this is specific to Boston in this size strata. None of it.
Seattle is this, but maybe even more extreme in a number of ways including saturation and density. Atlanta metro sprawls, just as the city itself does. In fact, it sprawls more than Boston, as it has full 360 degree suburbia spreading 60 miles in any direction. And if it hadn't been for Detroit's struggle, it MAY mirror more closely Chicagoland, but it doesn't. It does have more state roads and more localized strip malls and fast food, but it's no more dense.
The kicker, none of these have public transportation. Despite Greater Boston's shortcomings and inefficiencies, it's still massively important, and is one of the two-three most heavily utilized commuter systems in the US.
I understand what you are saying, but again, this is not specific to Boston.
Boston suburbs are WAY more expensive than Chicgao suburbs. Probably double the price in Boston.
However, if people can so call afford it and there is more money being paid in taxes, disposable incomes, etc ... why are the Mass towns roughly on the same level as Chicago ones. Honestly, Chicago burbs look cleaner and the downtowns look better. Not EVERY Chicago suburb, but definitely a noticeable difference.
Driving through Newton the other day, it really didnt impress me... at all. Neither did Wellesley. Neither did a few other towns around the area. It just seems Chicago suburbs are better looking which makes no sense because Boston burbs have way more money flowing through them. Am I missing something here?
Note: MOney as in town revenue, taxes, etc..
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 01-16-2020 at 09:30 AM..
An example of a muted commercial corridor about 7 mile north of downtown Boston. Expensive but ungentrified. Full of grandfathered businesses with no innovation.
Boston suburbs are WAY more expensive than Chicgao suburbs. Probably double the price in Boston.
However, if people can so call afford it and there is more money being paid in taxes, disposable incomes, etc ... why are the Mass towns roughly on the same level as Chicago ones. Honestly, Chicago burbs look cleaner and the downtowns look better. Not EVERY Chicago suburb, but definitely a noticeable difference.
Driving through Newton the other day, it really didnt impress me... at all. Neither did Wellesley. Neither did a few other towns around the area. It just seems Chicago suburbs are better looking which makes no sense because Boston burbs have way more money flowing through them. Am I missing something here?
see my most recent post. It's too difficult for businesses to do basic things in the Boston area in general. Nothing you said was inaccurate.
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